PPI Reclaiming discussion Part III

dreamer33

marshallka wrote: »

It was since 2005 that you were supposed to have two agreements. Before then the PPI could be put how yours and mine was entered but there is something about the way it was entered onto the agreement that can be wrong i think. Its about adding the PPI as a total charge for credit...

Need to look into this more. Its about a section of the CCA so maybe a long time though...

Hello all

I think you are right, don't think they are allowed to class it as a loan not to sure though if this is the case then the whole agreement could well be void, or am I just looking for something else here lol

marshallka

dreamer33 wrote: »

Hello all

I think you are right, don't think they are allowed to class it as a loan not to sure though if this is the case then the whole agreement could well be void, or am I just looking for something else here lol

Something I read too.... need to find out more here. Concentrate on the loan that paid the PPI and not the PPI itself.....;) Thats what i was told...

marshallka

Dreamer, here is something that may be of interest from CAG

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/bank-charges-finance-industry/145150-interesting-article-yes-car.html

and this here



Related purchases financed by the credit
Often Payment Protection Insurance (PPI) or Guaranteed Asset Protection
(GAP) will be additional products purchased by the consumer and financed
under the agreement. If the PPI and GAP is so financed, the charges on that
part of the loan will also be subject to a rebate on early settlement.
There are issues here relating to s.18 multiple agreements. If the PPI or GAP
is part of an overall loan, then it should be covered by the early settlement
calculation. If it is regarded as a separate agreement, then it should be clear
to the consumer that he has the option of settling both, and will be entitled to
an early settlement rebate calculation on both.
Whether the PPI or GAP is financed by credit or not, there is a separate issue
of whether the policy can be wound up and any refund provided by the
insurance company. This would be down to the terms and conditions of the
policy (subject to the UTCCR'S.

http://64.233.183.104/search?q=cache:huNOAmOAnrEJ:www.berr.gov.uk/files/file42395.pdf+PPI+on+consumer+credit+agreement+added+as+part+of+the+total+charge+for+credit&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=2&gl=uk

dreamer33

marshallka wrote: »

Dreamer, here is something that may be of interest from CAG

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/bank-charges-finance-industry/145150-interesting-article-yes-car.html

and this here



Related purchases financed by the credit
Often Payment Protection Insurance (PPI) or Guaranteed Asset Protection
(GAP) will be additional products purchased by the consumer and financed
under the agreement. If the PPI and GAP is so financed, the charges on that
part of the loan will also be subject to a rebate on early settlement.
There are issues here relating to s.18 multiple agreements. If the PPI or GAP
is part of an overall loan, then it should be covered by the early settlement
calculation. If it is regarded as a separate agreement, then it should be clear
to the consumer that he has the option of settling both, and will be entitled to
an early settlement rebate calculation on both.
Whether the PPI or GAP is financed by credit or not, there is a separate issue
of whether the policy can be wound up and any refund provided by the
insurance company. This would be down to the terms and conditions of the
policy (subject to the UTCCR'S.

http://64.233.183.104/search?q=cache:huNOAmOAnrEJ:www.berr.gov.uk/files/file42395.pdf+PPI+on+consumer+credit+agreement+added+as+part+of+the+total+charge+for+credit&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=2&gl=uk

After reading the post on cag its very interesting, it appears that the ppi should be classed as a separate agreement? mmmmmmmmmm not to sure how mine worked ie both added together as one loan bl**dy robbers:mad:

dreamer33

marshallka wrote: »

Dreamer, here is something that may be of interest from CAG

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/bank-charges-finance-industry/145150-interesting-article-yes-car.html

and this here



Related purchases financed by the credit
Often Payment Protection Insurance (PPI) or Guaranteed Asset Protection
(GAP) will be additional products purchased by the consumer and financed
under the agreement. If the PPI and GAP is so financed, the charges on that
part of the loan will also be subject to a rebate on early settlement.
There are issues here relating to s.18 multiple agreements. If the PPI or GAP
is part of an overall loan, then it should be covered by the early settlement
calculation. If it is regarded as a separate agreement, then it should be clear
to the consumer that he has the option of settling both, and will be entitled to
an early settlement rebate calculation on both.
Whether the PPI or GAP is financed by credit or not, there is a separate issue
of whether the policy can be wound up and any refund provided by the
insurance company. This would be down to the terms and conditions of the
policy (subject to the UTCCR'S.

http://64.233.183.104/search?q=cache:huNOAmOAnrEJ:www.berr.gov.uk/files/file42395.pdf+PPI+on+consumer+credit+agreement+added+as+part+of+the+total+charge+for+credit&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=2&gl=uk

After reading the post on cag its very interesting, it appears that the ppi should be classed as a separate agreement? mmmmmmmmmm not to sure how mine worked ie both added together as one loan bl**dy robbers:mad:

What its saying is if they were both one agreement then there should have been a rebate on loan and ppi

marshallka

An Innocent Mistake Proved Costly To The Lender
In a recent case a consumer borrowed the sum of £5,000 from a lender. However the lender charged a document fee of £250 which was added to the total cost of the loan. This document fee was put in the wrong part of the agreement which made the loan unenforceable. The consumer at court successfully claimed back the entire loan and interest.
The law under the Consumer Credit Act if strict as it is designed to protect consumers by allowing them to compare credit on a like for like basis. The document fee was a “charge for credit” rather than credit itself.
The Consumer Credit Act & Charges For Credit
If a document fee or the cost of a PPI policy is a charge for credit it could be deemed that it does not represent true “credit” in the Agreement, but rather a “charge for credit” as defined in s.9(4) of the Act. The Loan Agreement has not been properly executed in line with s.61(1)(a) of the Act.
The consequences of such a failure to execute the Agreement properly are that it is now unenforceable as stated in s.65 of the Act, without an application to the courts. However any such application will fail under s.127(3) as there is no signed agreement between lender and consumer and containing all of the “prescribed terms”.
In simple terms, due to strict legal laws, there is a chance that if you have taken out a loan which is £25,000 or less there could be a chance you could have it written-off and the payments made returned to you plus interest.


Interesting!!!!!

Section 9 (4) here

total charge for credit. (4) For the purposes of this Act, an item entering into
the total charge for credit shall not be treated as credit even though time is allowed for
its payment.

Section 61(1)

61.—(1) A regulated agreement is not properly executed unless
(a) a document in the prescribed form itself containing all the prescribed terms
and conforming to regulations under section 60(1) is signed in the prescribed
manner both by the debtor or hirer and by or on behalf of the creditor or owner,
and
(b) the document embodies all the terms of the agreement, other than implied terms,
and
(c) the document is, when presented or sent to the debtor or hirer for signature, in

such a state that all its terms are readily legible.

Section 65

65.—(1) An improperly-executed regulated agreement is enforceable against the
debtor or hirer on an order of the court only.
(2) A retaking of goods or land to which a regulated agreement relates is an

enforcement of the agreement.

Section 127(3)

(3) The court shall not make an enforcement order under section 65(1) if section
61(1)(a) (signing of agreements) was not complied with unless a document (whether
or not in the prescribed form and complying with regulations under section 60(1))
itself containing all the prescribed terms of the agreement was signed by the debtor or

hirer (whether or not in the prescribed manner).

dreamer33

marshallka wrote: »

An Innocent Mistake Proved Costly To The Lender
In a recent case a consumer borrowed the sum of £5,000 from a lender. However the lender charged a document fee of £250 which was added to the total cost of the loan. This document fee was put in the wrong part of the agreement which made the loan unenforceable. The consumer at court successfully claimed back the entire loan and interest.
The law under the Consumer Credit Act if strict as it is designed to protect consumers by allowing them to compare credit on a like for like basis. The document fee was a “charge for credit” rather than credit itself.
The Consumer Credit Act & Charges For Credit
If a document fee or the cost of a PPI policy is a charge for credit it could be deemed that it does not represent true “credit” in the Agreement, but rather a “charge for credit” as defined in s.9(4) of the Act. The Loan Agreement has not been properly executed in line with s.61(1)(a) of the Act.
The consequences of such a failure to execute the Agreement properly are that it is now unenforceable as stated in s.65 of the Act, without an application to the courts. However any such application will fail under s.127(3) as there is no signed agreement between lender and consumer and containing all of the “prescribed terms”.
In simple terms, due to strict legal laws, there is a chance that if you have taken out a loan which is £25,000 or less there could be a chance you could have it written-off and the payments made returned to you plus interest.


Interesting!!!!!

The only thing is mine was over £25k and not regulated, however the rebate was calculated according to the rule of 78 under the cca 1974. That was the only thing that was regulated.

Even though it was not regulated they have still mis-sold the ppi.

dreamer33

just going to watch the fireworks back soon x

maxdp

Hi All

Hope you all well. Just popped in to say hello will catch up on posts tomorrow. And am sure will post some replies;):D

owlet

di3004 wrote: »

Hi there Owlet.

Wow that was a quick response you received from NR, am I correct that you haven't long done this?;)

And yes, unfortunately with these loans, that they add the full premium of the loan and ppi with interest, which can also be part of your complaint here.;)

May I ask what sort of questions are on this questionaire? if its the one I'm thinking of, many recently have received these and have not bothered, but added a letter with the questionaire and told them they have already made their point on the letter, its up to you here, but to me they are using these questionaires as stalling tactics.

See what others suggest about this too hun and good luck. x

They took a week to ten days to send out the questionaire, but I'm not under any illusions that the rest will be that fast lol.

The questionaire was pretty much repeating the info that was in the original letter,

Who the policy is with, policy number, start & finish dates, type of policy, how I applied, who it covered, did I have any dependants, have I claimed on the policy etc.

I have completed it and will post it tomorrow just so they can't stall on it by sending it back to me!

On the agreement, the PPI is listed separately to the main cash loan:

Loan Protect Loan £485.23 Cash Loan £2636.00
Total Payable £556.80 Total Payable £3027.00
Monthly Payment £9.28 Monthly Payment £50.45

Then under 'other financial information'

The total charge for credit (which is made up of interest) is

Loan Protect Loan £71.57
Cash Loan £391.00

Can I clarify that this is what is meant by a single premium? Where the PPI is paid in one lump sum at the beginning, by the means of an additional loan to which interest is applied? Sorry if I am being thick, just need to be armed with the facts!

Thanks guys, your help is very much appreciated!


Dreamer 33 I will get the telephone recordings, thank you!