Glasses Buying Cost Cutting Plan Article Discussion Area

Steve_xx

esseesee wrote: »

I believe you are the only person who has made any noises about opticians subsidising anything.

Perhaps, if the cause of high prices is that Pentax maintains these for their products in the UK, as compared to not doing so in eg Cyprus, India and Australia, the government could help itself, the NHS, opticians and the glasses-wearing public, by negotiating with the optical materials suppliers as it does with certain large pharmcos in the case of some drugs.

Yes I did mention about opticians subsidising. Nothing wrong with mentioning it is there? There was an implication that the optician is ripping customers off through high charges for Pentax lenses.

esseesee

Steve_xx wrote: »

Yes I did mention about opticians subsidising. Nothing wrong with mentioning it is there? There was an implication that the optician is ripping customers off through high charges for Pentax lenses.

No, there is nothing wrong in your suggesting it; what was wrong, though, was the impression you gave in your post that someone ELSE had suggested it.

Which they hadn't.

What was suggested was the possibility that the suppliers of the optical materials (Pentax or whichever brand name was mentioned) might be overcharging both opticians and patients by holding prices artificially high in the UK (and elsewhere for all I know).

Steve_xx

esseesee wrote: »

No, there is nothing wrong in your suggesting it; what was wrong, though, was the impression you gave in your post that someone ELSE had suggested it.

Which they hadn't.

What was suggested was the possibility that the suppliers of the optical materials (Pentax or whichever brand name was mentioned) might be overcharging both opticians and patients by holding prices artificially high in the UK (and elsewhere for all I know).

To quote your good self:

"Those of us with poor eyesight who need high-index lenses for their specific qualities, not merely for vanity's sake, are held hostage by high street opticians here in the UK. Opticians cannot/will not supply 'standard' price lenses in my prescription so there is no way that I can 'get a cheap pair to keep as a spare' as people so blithely recommend."

What you clearly suggested was that opticians, not the producer of Pentax lenses, are ripping their customers off by holding you "hostage".

nedmundo

esseesee wrote: »

Steve, please inform me precisely WHERE I can get a pair of glasses for £25 with a prescription of -13.5 dioptres. If you can inform me of an optician who will consider supplying standard lenses at standard cost for this prescription, I would be very grateful indeed, as then I could have a spare pair at my current prescription.

Just to plod in here - why on earth would you want -13.30 in a standard material (apart from the cost factor)? They would be about an inch thick. For that reason, no manufacturer would keep the prescription in stock and the lenses would have to be custom made - hence they would be much more expensive.

Also, if you want to get specs to that presciption made online without factors like the back vertex distance, tilt and wrap of the frame being taken into account - then you will be seriously disappointed with the visual performance of them.

esseesee

Steve_xx wrote: »

Opticians will sometimes dispense lenses of that prescription but of course they would be very heavy, so they tend not to.

Please suggest to me where I might find one of these 'sometimes' opticians. In weeks of searching I have not found one.

It would be great to have an affordable spare pair of glasses. (BTW in plastic they would not be particularly heavy but they would be thick and ugly. You like to give the impression that you know a great deal about optical dispensing but I do have to wonder ...) Appearance and comfort come very far behind being able to see, so I would not care about this in the slightest if I were only able to find an optician who would dispense glasses in my prescription, at a price which does not overrun my NHS optical vouchers by more than, say, 150% of their value.

Steve_xx wrote: »

Would you consider that £300 is an excessive amount to pay for a new suit of your choice?

Using a similar analogy, would you consider it acceptable to be forced - yes, forced - to pay several hundred pounds merely in order to achieve decency to answer the door safely? Would you think it acceptable if, on attempting to enter Primark with a tenner in your hand for a T-shirt and a skirt, you were ordered to go and pay £300 (which you do not have) for a T-shirt at Gianni Versace, the alternative being nakedness?

You will note that I have never once said that I want hi-index lenses for reasons of vanity, but rather that hi-index lenses are all that any optician will supply to me, for reason of visual/medical necessity. Please tell me when/if a £300 fashion garment is a medical necessity, rather than a personal choice.

Steve_xx wrote: »

At the end of the day it is not expensive for spectacles here in the UK. Though I appreciate that in some instances such as yours, then it seems so.

So £300 minimumn on top of my optical vouchers, for a person receiving pension credit, only seems expensive eh? Do you live in some sort of alternative world, Steve?

However, given that you have equated an essential medical appliance - visual aids for a person with severe myopia - with an item of fashion clothing - a suit costing £300 - I have to wonder what world you do live in.

Would you be so insensitive as to make the same analogy to all persons needing medically-prescribed appliances?

I consider that to equate essential medical appliances with fashion garments of one's choice, is despicable, and insulting in the extreme to everyone who requires some sort of medically-prescribed aid to function safely in daily life.

nedmundo

esseesee wrote: »

Appearance and comfort come very far behind being able to see

How well would you be able to see through a thick slap of uncoated CR39 plastic? I'd wager extremely poorly - with tunnelling effect and glare beyond belief.

Anyway - much as I hate to say this - I believe the best deal for what you are after would be Asda - they would upgrade you to the most suitable lens type for free.

Steve_xx

esseesee wrote: »

Please suggest to me where I might find one of these 'sometimes' opticians. In weeks of searching I have not found one.

It would be great to have an affordable spare pair of glasses. (BTW in plastic they would not be particularly heavy but they would be thick and ugly. You like to give the impression that you know a great deal about optical dispensing but I do have to wonder ...) Appearance and comfort come very far behind being able to see, so I would not care about this in the slightest if I were only able to find an optician who would dispense glasses in my prescription, at a price which does not overrun my NHS optical vouchers by more than, say, 150% of their value.



Using a similar analogy, would you consider it acceptable to be forced - yes, forced - to pay several hundred pounds merely in order to achieve decency to answer the door safely? Would you think it acceptable if, on attempting to enter Primark with a tenner in your hand for a T-shirt and a skirt, you were ordered to go and pay £300 (which you do not have) for a T-shirt at Gianni Versace, the alternative being nakedness?

You will note that I have never once said that I want hi-index lenses for reasons of vanity, but rather that hi-index lenses are all that any optician will supply to me, for reason of visual/medical necessity. Please tell me when/if a £300 fashion garment is a medical necessity, rather than a personal choice.



So £300 minimumn on top of my optical vouchers, for a person receiving pension credit, only seems expensive eh? Do you live in some sort of alternative world, Steve?

However, given that you have equated an essential medical appliance - visual aids for a person with severe myopia - with an item of fashion clothing - a suit costing £300 - I have to wonder what world you do live in.

Would you be so insensitive as to make the same analogy to all persons needing medically-prescribed appliances?

I consider that to equate essential medical appliances with fashion garments of one's choice, is despicable, and insulting in the extreme to everyone who requires some sort of medically-prescribed aid to function safely in daily life.

I certainly am in the real world. Just because I do not concur with each and every view that you hold about optical services in the UK, doesn't make me unworldly.

I appreciate and sympathise that you are having to pay the price that you are for your spectacles. This is largely due to the complexity of the lenses as you know. If, as you say, you can obtain the product from Australia at a much lesser price, then in fact there is no problem because you do have that as an alternative.

esseesee

nedmundo wrote: »

Just to plod in here - why on earth would you want -13.30 in a standard material (apart from the cost factor)? They would be about an inch thick. For that reason, no manufacturer would keep the prescription in stock and the lenses would have to be custom made - hence they would be much more expensive.

Also, if you want to get specs to that presciption made online without factors like the back vertex distance, tilt and wrap of the frame being taken into account - then you will be seriously disappointed with the visual performance of them.

What I want, what I need and what I can afford are three entirely different things.

Let's leave out what I want. I have said all along that my search fo hi-index lenses at an affordable price is not a want, is not triggered by vanity, but is a necessity owing to my prescription.

What I need is hi-index lenses of decent quality at a price I can afford. I am perfectly well aware of the need (as I have already stated in an earlier post which you must not have seen - perhaps you need new specs?) for accurate measuring of PD, vertex, etc and of varying standards of optical education and practice - I have been wearing glasses for over 60 years and travelling the world for forty of those years.

What I can afford is limited by my income.
The fact that I receive pension credit guarantee tells you everything you need to know about my income and my savings. Hence I receive an NHS optical voucher and - because of my prescription - a complex lens voucher. This amounts to the grand total of under £100. As you appear to know so much about the business, please suggest a UK high street opticians where I can get glasses with acceptable hi-index lenses to my prescription for no, or little, more than, the value of the vouchers.

If you have read my posts, you will see that I have no intention of using some anonymous third-world internet optician, and would not dream of comparing their prices and services with those of a first-world educated and qualified optometrist and/or DO.

I lived in Australia for several years where my optician provided me with glasses of good quality at a very affordable price, and even with the massive rise in the value of the Australian dollar, can provide me with the exact same frames and fitting, with a minimal prescription change, at almost exactly half the cost of a UK high street cheap discount optician. He of course has all the detailed measurements necessary and asked me to assure him that I have not changed weight noticeably nor had any change or alteration to my facial or ocular features. He also asked for the new prescription and retinal examination to be faxed to him so he has been able to make a comparison with his records.

Colin was shocked - yes SHOCKED - at the prices I have been quoted here in the UK, and has said he will be sure to recommend to any of his patients who mention travelling to the UK, to get 'stocked up' on glasses before they leave, if they have a significant prescription.

What the cause of this price discrepancy might be, I have no idea.It is certainly not due to substandard workmanship, low rental, low wages, 'fake' materials, unregulated business practices, unqualified practitioners or anything else of that nature.
Perhaps it is due to opticians not accepting extortionate prices from their suppliers; perhaps it is due to prevalent Australian attitudes; perhaps it is due to greater expectation of equality between all patients, leading to less-wide price bands so that although the £15 UK glasses would be £35 in Australia, the £400 UK glasses would only be £150 in Australia ...

I don't know - I am not in the optical business. Those of you who sound as if you are in it should have explanations.

esseesee

No-one said or implied that opticians should subsidise the cost of lenses; that implication was detected and brought up by you and you alone.

Indeed I did state that opticians are effectively holding me hostage by their high prices - mea culpa.
What else would you suggest I call the refusal to supply affordable glasses which enable me to function in normal daily life? The NHS gives me vouchers worth, in total, less than £100. The optician insists I need a new prescription. I KNOW I need a new prescription. Opticians (more than one!) insist they are unable to supply suitable glasses to me for the value of the NHS vouchers, or for 50% more than their value, or even double their value.

Who is holding me hostage? Someone certainly is, albeit with invisible bindings.

Is it optical wholesalers holding the opticians hostage with price hikes?
Is it the NHS, holding both me and the opticians hostage with miserly allowances?
Is it optical practices wanting to make a huge profit out of the visually-afflicted?

For being held hostage I certainly am; without appropriate glasses I can see no further than my nose and in front of my nose is the optician telling me that glasses will cost me £400 and claiming to be unable to supply what I consider affordable ones in my prescription. If that is not holding me hostage and ripping me off, I don't know what it, given that I can get equivalent or better quality glasses in Australia for half the UK prices.

The fact that the opticians themselves might be held hostage by a wholesaler is of little consequence to me if I am not made aware of that fact or asked to comment or oppose it in some way. There are several business models which can make for more effective pricing and ensure better profits for retailers, better service/prices for customers and a perfectly profitable wholesaler or middleman.

Are opticians being ripped off by their suppliers, and just passing it on to their customers, or are the opticians themselves hiking up their prices unreasonably?

Why is there such a cost discrepancy between my specs in Australia and my specs in the UK?

Unfortunately I do not have the business connections to find out the 'wholesale costs' of quality frames and lenses, or the set-up costs of an optical practice, but I cannot conceive of their being such huge discrepancies between the UK and Australia as to legitimately make high-prescription glasses more than twice as expensive here in England as they are in Australia - especially given the comparative sizes of the markets.

buglawton

Steve_xx wrote: »

If Pentax maintain high prices for their product, then are you suggesting that the optician should subsidise that cost, rather than the NHS?

ok then, in a word, 'no'