Glasses Buying Cost Cutting Plan Article Discussion Area

nedmundo

I can safely say that high index lenses to that sort of prescription would cost more than you think. Therefore it could be argued that it is the suppliers, along with overheads that are the limiting factor. The same applies with virtually every product in the UK, from CDs to clothes and PCs. The suppliers will of course argue that their operating costs are higher in the UK, partly down to factors like regulation compliance and minimum wage.

BTW - you shouldn't have been issued with 2 vouchers - GOS and complex. The comple voucher anly applies to those not on any other benefits.

Steve_xx

esseesee wrote: »

No-one said or implied that opticians should subsidise the cost of lenses; that implication was detected and brought up by you and you alone.

But you did clearly state that opticians are ripping you off. Therefore it must follow that you feel that the high cost of your spectacles should be borne by someone else, but not you.

Indeed I did state that opticians are effectively holding me hostage by their high prices - mea culpa.
What else would you suggest I call the refusal to supply affordable glasses which enable me to function in normal daily life? The NHS gives me vouchers worth, in total, less than £100. The optician insists I need a new prescription. I KNOW I need a new prescription. Opticians (more than one!) insist they are unable to supply suitable glasses to me for the value of the NHS vouchers, or for 50% more than their value, or even double their value.

The fact that you get vouchers puts you in a better position that you would otherwise be. So at least it is of some help.

Who is holding me hostage? Someone certainly is, albeit with invisible bindings.

Is it optical wholesalers holding the opticians hostage with price hikes?
Is it the NHS, holding both me and the opticians hostage with miserly allowances?
Is it optical practices wanting to make a huge profit out of the visually-afflicted?

For being held hostage I certainly am; without appropriate glasses I can see no further than my nose and in front of my nose is the optician telling me that glasses will cost me £400 and claiming to be unable to supply what I consider affordable ones in my prescription. If that is not holding me hostage and ripping me off, I don't know what it, given that I can get equivalent or better quality glasses in Australia for half the UK prices.

Nobody is holding you hostage as you have clearly stated that you can obtain the spectacles of your choice, and at the price you want from Australia. so why not simply do that.

In addition to that, another poster on here has suggested that you may be able to find suitable eyewear at Asda. I assume that you have read and disgested this suggestion?

The fact that the opticians themselves might be held hostage by a wholesaler is of little consequence to me if I am not made aware of that fact or asked to comment or oppose it in some way. There are several business models which can make for more effective pricing and ensure better profits for retailers, better service/prices for customers and a perfectly profitable wholesaler or middleman.

Why would you be made aware of a situation that may or may not exist between opticians and producers? You are a single user with a complex prescription that costs more than a simpler one and that is the fact of the matter.

Are opticians being ripped off by their suppliers, and just passing it on to their customers, or are the opticians themselves hiking up their prices unreasonably?

Opticians may or may not be being ripped off by their suppliers. A lot will depend on negotoiating skills as with any other industry. Some opticians may have higher prices than others. For some it might mean that their overheads are greater and for others it might be that they want to earn a greater markup. There is no regulation as to what an optician may charge for the provision of spectacles.

However, a single high street optical outlet will not want to price themselves out of the market if say they have a Specsavers next door.

Why is there such a cost discrepancy between my specs in Australia and my specs in the UK?

Well now the discrepancy in pricing may not be as great as you might like to think once you place your order in Oz, then pay the deliery charge. Not to mention import duties and taxes like VAT, all of which may be payable once the goods arrive in the UK. Of course you have considered these extras, I'm sure.

Unfortunately I do not have the business connections to find out the 'wholesale costs' of quality frames and lenses, or the set-up costs of an optical practice, but I cannot conceive of their being such huge discrepancies between the UK and Australia as to legitimately make high-prescription glasses more than twice as expensive here in England as they are in Australia - especially given the comparative sizes of the markets.

You are the customer, you have a choice. You are free to import your eyewear from Australia. Though I'm not sure that your vouchers would be of any use if you bought from Oz. Take that into account plus the import duties I mentioned earlier and I wonder if the Oz option looks quite that attractive now?

buglawton

This looks topical

Why it's hard to buy eyewear online: E-tailer complains to OFT

Also, reading through this lengthy article about Retail Opticians’
Services:

The Benefits from Competition: some illustrative UK cases
...about UK competition in the retail ophthalmic market:

p13:
"...frustrated by the absence, or unavailability, of official price series. This means that some of our conclusions are uncertain, most obviously for spectacles and books."

p23:
"[ after ] a number of investigations by the MMC, the Price Commission, and then the OFT, culminated in 1984 in the Sales of Optical Appliances Order. Amongst other things, this allowed advertising and facilitated new entry. It was hoped that this would lead to fiercer price and non-price competition [ snipped ] ...Although nearly 20 years have elapsed since these reforms, we believe that the available evidence on price and quality is inconclusive on whether they have proved successful"

'bout time for another and more thorough OFT investigation, methinks.... trouble is, it's an 'opaque' industry so no easy task!

esseesee

Steve_xx wrote: »

You are the customer, you have a choice. You are free to import your eyewear from Australia. Though I'm not sure that your vouchers would be of any use if you bought from Oz. Take that into account plus the import duties I mentioned earlier and I wonder if the Oz option looks quite that attractive now?

I only have a choice because I already have an optician in Australia, which is an advantage enjoyed by relatively few people.

Of course I can't use my NHS vouchers in Australia! Good heavens young man, you are 'not sure' if UK NHS vouchers would be 'any use' in Australia? Why should they be? Would a ticket on National Express from Plymouth to York be 'any use' in Australia or are you 'not sure' about that, either? You seem to assume that the optical customer (in this case, me) lacks common sense.

Given that my NHS vouchers are worth less than £100, that discount glasses of unknown lens quality here in the UK are apparently going to cost me around £400, less the value of the vouchers (ie over £300) and that glasses of known acceptable quality from my optician in Sydney will cost me just over £200, even when I add 20% VAT to the full price, I think the arithmetic is fairly elementary, my dear Watson. If you wish to check it yourself, I can provide you with the exact figures, the current rate of GST (similar to VAT) in Australia, postage charges and a copy of the email from HMRC which defines and describes the customs and VAT charges. This is somewhat complex as the defined duty is 2.9% of the stated value unless a GSP is in existence from the country of import (for which information I am still waiting on a communication from HMRC) and VAT of 20% is not charged on the 'dispensing' portion of the invoice, but only on the materials and supplies.

The glasses from Sydney are still looking very attractive indeed.

I have already explained that I will not compare other than like with like - ie I would not dream of comparing the prices of high street optical practices in Sydney or Manchester with glazing practices in third-world countries, however shiny their shop-front on the internet.

However, I am still wondering to what reason you ascribe the 100% difference in price between a brand name 1.9 glass in Sydney and the same prescription in an own-brand 'unspecified' (but believed to be 1.8 or 1.9) hi-index glass in Manchester?

I would also be interested in your opinion on the validity of the analogy made between the cost of spectacles needed for functioning in daily life and the cost of items of fashionable clothing.

esseesee

nedmundo wrote: »

I can safely say that high index lenses to that sort of prescription would cost more than you think. Therefore it could be argued that it is the suppliers, along with overheads that are the limiting factor. The same applies with virtually every product in the UK, from CDs to clothes and PCs. The suppliers will of course argue that their operating costs are higher in the UK, partly down to factors like regulation compliance and minimum wage.

BTW - you shouldn't have been issued with 2 vouchers - GOS and complex. The comple voucher anly applies to those not on any other benefits.

What do you mean by a flat assurance that my lenses most certainly 'cost more than you think'? Do you KNOW what I think? Of course you don't!

I think that you have no idea of the operating costs in Australia, which is where I am comparing prices from personal knowledge, including regulation compliance, minimum wage and business rentals in central Sydney. What do you think is minimum wage in NSW? Hint - it's rather more than it is here in England ...

Perhaps the assurance by the discount optician here in the UK that I would benefit from both vouchers is just another aspect of the 'hard sell' to get my money and then ask for still more before they'll let me take my specs away with me ...

Steve_xx

esseesee wrote: »

I only have a choice because I already have an optician in Australia, which is an advantage enjoyed by relatively few people.

Not so. Anyone can access an online provider located in another domain, and they often do.

Of course I can't use my NHS vouchers in Australia! Good heavens young man, you are 'not sure' if UK NHS vouchers would be 'any use' in Australia? Why should they be? Would a ticket on National Express from Plymouth to York be 'any use' in Australia or are you 'not sure' about that, either?

It was a tongue-in-cheek remark.

You seem to assume that the optical customer (in this case, me) lacks common sense.

Your words, certainly not mine.

Given that my NHS vouchers are worth less than £100, that discount glasses of unknown lens quality here in the UK are apparently going to cost me around £400, less the value of the vouchers (ie over £300) and that glasses of known acceptable quality from my optician in Sydney will cost me just over £200, even when I add 20% VAT to the full price, I think the arithmetic is fairly elementary, my dear Watson. If you wish to check it yourself, I can provide you with the exact figures, the current rate of GST (similar to VAT) in Australia, postage charges and a copy of the email from HMRC which defines and describes the customs and VAT charges. This is somewhat complex as the defined duty is 2.9% of the stated value unless a GSP is in existence from the country of import (for which information I am still waiting on a communication from HMRC) and VAT of 20% is not charged on the 'dispensing' portion of the invoice, but only on the materials and supplies.

The glasses from Sydney are still looking very attractive indeed.

There you are then. You have a satisfactory solution to hand. So there is in fact, no real problem.

I have already explained that I will not compare other than like with like - ie I would not dream of comparing the prices of high street optical practices in Sydney or Manchester with glazing practices in third-world countries, however shiny their shop-front on the internet.

However, I am still wondering to what reason you ascribe the 100% difference in price between a brand name 1.9 glass in Sydney and the same prescription in an own-brand 'unspecified' (but believed to be 1.8 or 1.9) hi-index glass in Manchester?

Keep wondering. I have no idea why there is such a difference. I'm sure though that you will find similar differences within Manchester!

I would also be interested in your opinion on the validity of the analogy made between the cost of spectacles needed for functioning in daily life and the cost of items of fashionable clothing.

Both items are often seen a fashion accessories these days. Both items have a cost associated with their production. Both items are needed, ie can't see, need glasses. No clothes, can't go out!

Though of course I fully understand that it better suits your personal cause to view the spectacles as necessaries over the items of clothing.

Now, as I see it you have a problem with the charges levied by UK opticians for spectacles that they provide for you. You have suitably overcome this situation by acquiring the said spectacles from a supplier in Australia at a cost that you can bear. Therefore you no longer have a problem.

buglawton

Distance between pupil & lens. This, according to the "Why it's hard to buy eyewear online: E-tailer complains to OFT" link, is the secret element of a prescription that your eye tester won't release to you - or any 3rd party spectacles supplier - after your eye test.

If you are to believe this, then no online glasses supplier can make you a perfect optically performing pair of specs.

true of false?

I'll leave that cat among the pigeons and scarper for a while...but be interested if anyone has any facts to offer.

nedmundo

Ewan would say that wouldn't he! It doesn't restrict competition. The dispensing is a different service to an eye examination. He just wants the law changed to suit his own interests.

Patients have an option - remote dispensing with less accurately centred lenses and other measurements such as frame wrap, distance from eyes, frame tilt and position on nose not taken into account or have a face to face dispensing where all these things can be controlled if required, which may cost a bit more.

TBF - they aren't always that critical, hence there are plenty of satisfied online customers. But there are also plenty of unsatisfied customers out there who don't get optimum vision with the omission of the parameters.

buglawton

So what we are really saying is that prescriptions are not really transferable, just a stating point for an optician to work on.

I still recall getting a pair supplied by a proper optician, finding they were not clear unless I raised them off my nose a few mm - took them back and new lenses had to be supplied, as the horizontal centre position had been miscommunicated.

nedmundo

In effect - exactly. And your example is a classic reason as to why dispensing isn't really as simple as lens powers and PD, which is what the online providers claim.