the failure to build enough homes in recent years means uk house market could start a

andys15

scousethife wrote: »

andys15
Desperate 100% mortgager or desperate estate agent? none

You decide!

This person is desperate whoever thay are, trying their hardest to pimp out credit like a cheap slag in a crotchless shellsuit. dont understand what any of this means

Listen !!!!!!. House prices have had their day, and that day is called yesterday. Its over and over for years and years and years! we will see. not you or I can tell

Heres my advice to you = stop dreaming about paper money you belived EA's said you had. I have no paper money, definately in negative equity.

Stop thinking houses only went up. Only a fool would believe that

AND stop working at mcdonalds and get a proper job you dik. Ok I dont work at Mcdonalds, but what would be wrong with that if I did. I respect anyone who is prepared to do a hard days work, and pay taxes. My friend used to work at Mcdonalds and he is a now a DR.

But most of all stop beleiving everything you a told

If I believed everything I was told, then I would believe all what is said on here. I am allowed to express my opinion, and not stop others from having an opinion. Hence I am not believing everything I am told

I am only bothering to write to you now, because I am on my break at work, and I dont want to put any money in the fruit machine. Mcdonalds must be opening early as its 5 am, or I must be trying to sell some houses being an estate agent and the rush since yesterday is so busy I am having to show people round now. You are stopping me from losing a couple of quid so thanks for that.

andys15

scousethife wrote: »

andys15
Desperate 100% mortgager or desperate estate agent? none

You decide!

This person is desperate whoever thay are, trying their hardest to pimp out credit like a cheap slag in a crotchless shellsuit. dont understand what any of this means

Listen !!!!!!. House prices have had their day, and that day is called yesterday. Its over and over for years and years and years! we will see. not you or I can tell

Heres my advice to you = stop dreaming about paper money you belived EA's said you had. I have no paper money, definately in negative equity.

Stop thinking houses only went up. Only a fool would believe that

AND stop working at mcdonalds and get a proper job you dik. Ok I dont work at Mcdonalds, but what would be wrong with that if I did. I respect anyone who is prepared to do a hard days work, and pay taxes. My friend used to work at Mcdonalds and he is a now a DR.

But most of all stop beleiving everything you a told

If I believed everything I was told, then I would believe all what is said on here. I am allowed to express my opinion, and not stop others from having an opinion. Hence I am not believing everything I am told

I am only bothering to write to you now, because I am on my break at work, and I dont want to put any money in the fruit machine, you are saving me a couple of quid.. Mcdonalds must be opening early as its 5 am, or I must be trying to sell some houses being an estate agent and the rush since yesterday is so busy I am having to show people round now. .

dopester

neverdespairgirl wrote: »

That's all very nasty and unnecessary.

It does over-step because it is personally directed. I'd be lying if I said it didn't give some satisfaction though, seeing as andys15 has been suggesting house prices are about to stabilise and HPI may soon be back with a vengeance, and that it is justified as it promotes people working as many hours as possible.

In the past I've called them "HPI sluts", which I know is aggressive and not something I want to say, but it is attacking them as a group - not as individuals - and everyone knows I have my reasons... such as this world where people genuinely expect me to pay £340,000 for a property which realistically is only worth £120,000.... and years of HPI geniuses with lectures, and the BTL armies, and the Labour Government, and the years of stupid lending policies by banks and building societies.

stevetodd

dopester wrote: »

Ok... I presume the foundations were done by another gang in advance, in that £800.

I'll get back to you on this thread about the other stuff - especially £8,000 estimate shell price for labour (not including materials)

You may well be right.

He is right it, was me that originally flagged up your £800 error on this thread! I am a chartered quantity surveyor (or was until I retired early a few years ago), you are way out of the ball park.

Even if we assume it's a smallish 3 bed mid terrace house (ie not a detached or semi, so less walls) you are still talking in the region of 40m2 of cavity wall (ie bwk and 100mm blwk) 35m2 of party wall (140mm blwk) and 60m2 of internal blockwork (100mm blockwork). That's 175m2 of walling (counting the cavity wall twice) for £800 giving labour rate of £4.57/m2 for the 2+1 brickies gang therefore averaging only £1.52 per m2 of wall laid per member of the brickwork gang!

Don't forget they are not only laying the bricks they are also forming the window and door openings (it's not as if this is one large run of garden wall or a garage), inserting the lintels, cavity trays and dpc's to the windows.

dopester

stevetodd wrote: »

He is right it, was me that originally flagged up your £800 error on this thread! I am a chartered quantity surveyor (or was until I retired early a few years ago), you are way out of the ball park.

Even if we assume it's a smallish 3 bed mid terrace house (ie not a detached or semi, so less walls) you are still talking in the region of 40m2 of cavity wall (ie bwk and 100mm blwk) 35m2 of party wall (140mm blwk) and 60m2 of internal blockwork (100mm blockwork). That's 175m2 of walling (counting the cavity wall twice) for £800 giving labour rate of £4.57/m2 for the 2+1 brickies gang therefore averaging only £1.52 per m2 of wall laid per member of the brickwork gang!

Don't forget they are not only laying the bricks they are also forming the window and door openings (it's not as if this is one large run of garden wall or a garage), inserting the lintels, cavity trays and dpc's to the windows.

Hmmm. If I think back hard to when I originally read what I believed to be true about "£800"... did he say "£800 for the brickwork facing?" ... I can't remember now, can't find the original post, and admit I've been put in my place by better informed persons.

For everything you've just explained and listed, what do you think might be a price for a smallish 3-bed mid terrace house - that a brickie gang (or whatever they are called) might have gotten paid by an impatient, cost-focused developer?

I still hold to the prospect of cheaper labour rates... even for skilled tradesmen.

Keep in mind this is an article in the Times, all the way back in old-world territory, March 2008, when people were only beginning to grasp what may be ahead.

Labourers squeezed as construction dries up

Gerry Lean, the Construction Confederation's director of industrial relations, said that a 5 per cent cut in wages was “realistic, depending very much on demand”. Other industry figures said that pay reductions would be steeper.

Have Your Say:

in the early nineties i went from earning 90 pounds per day to 30 pounds a day in 18 months. the building trade has and always will be the same great in the good times dire in the bad plus dont forget in times of rain,frost you are often sent home with no pay at all i think there are very few brickies on on the figures you mention.steve, swindon, england

stevetodd

dopester wrote: »

Hmmm. If I think back hard to when I originally read what I believed to be true about "£800"... did he say "£800 for the brickwork facing?" ... I can't remember now, can't find the original post, and admit I've been put in my place by better informed persons.

For everything you've just explained and listed, what do you think might be a price for a smallish 3-bed mid terrace house - that a brickie gang (or whatever they are called) might have gotten paid by an impatient, cost-focused developer?

I still hold to the prospect of cheaper labour rates... even for skilled tradesmen.

Keep in mind this is an article in the Times, all the way back in old-world territory, March 2008, when people were only beginning to grasp what may be ahead.

Labourers squeezed as construction dries up

Have Your Say:

£800 would be perfectly reasonable for the facing brickwork skin as it costs about £21/m2 labour only, which on the small size I assumed would equate to £840. Regionally it would vary quite a bit of course, and if things get tough (which they will, with brass knobs on) that cost will come down.

ad9898_3

andys15 wrote: »

"the failure to build enough homes in recent years means uk house market could start again before usa" Gordon Brown
"
how long before 100% mortgages are back?

I think the answer to that question is not in my generation. EA's wont drop prices, sellers won't drop prices, so now the banks are going to force it to happen. I believe after the government announcement yesterday Lloyds and Nationwide have all but withdrawn their 90% LTV loans, you need 15% deposit now and a credit record cleaner than a.... very clean thing:D

The rest of the banks will follow suit, this with the fact that valuations are coming in lower will mean the falls will continue until an average house is affordable to the average man, at the moment despite the falls that have already happened it isn't.

I still can't get my head round HPI and why some people think its a good thing. Just the fact that most people have children and surely they don't want them working 80 hours a week to service a mortgage on a house on a sink estate in the years to come do they ?

This will still take a long time because sellers, EA's still have their heads firmly in the sand, the thing is the tide is going out and its only just started.

Max_Headroom_3

andys15 wrote: »

ok for a start i said part of me, i didn't specify how much of a part. It is called having appreciation for what you have achieved. If you need to work harder in order to get on the market, then it could be seen as a plus point in a person attitude. Would you not agree that working hard for something and then achieving it, does not give you satisfaction.

So if you were buying a new car, a £15K Ford Mondeo say, on finance (just to keep the parallels with house purchase for which you'd need a mortgage), are you suggesting you'd enjoy and appreciate the car more if only it were £30K instead so you had to find a bigger deposit and pay more finance? :huh:

Max_Headroom_3

And to answer the original point, banks CANNOT lend as much as they did in sheer quantity of money (be it in terms of multiples of income, ratios of deposit/loan, whatever) as it has been fairly comprehensively proven that this rate of lending is simply unsustainable and unaffordable (ie it doesn't come back).

That's why they are in the mes that they are in.

They HAVE to lend less to people, if they don't they will simply return to the point they were at just before the bailout.

You won't see a return to the sort of lending that was going on, it just is a mathmatical and factual impossibility.

steadysaver

andys15 wrote: »

because it would be a ploy as i have already explained to try and stabilize the market. You have answered my point. No lender would give 100% oon a falling market. So if they did give 100% mortgages, it would mean to me the banks feel house prices are not dropping, customer confidence is restored. House prices stabalize. Dont be naive enough to think that noone can afford to buy houses, people are just scared, take away the fear and they will be back onboard.

And when we enter a recession and 1000's of people lose their jobs people won't want to borrow. People will want to make sure that their job is secure and the good times start again before borrowing a potentially crippling amount of money.

Remember for every pound borrowed you have to pay two pounds back. This is something that always struck me when people say oh I made x £ profit on my house. They never seem to factor in what they paid in interest.