Icelandic Banks - The thread for OFFSHORE savers

inthebarrywhite?

Can anyone tell me how many K IOM 'savers' there were, and eg what % are non-UK residents (ie unable to open UK savings a'cs) ?

ie Are there a lot of us in the same boat ?

Many Thanks

donal_f

exsinger wrote: »

Just so you know, the majority of KSF(IoM) deposit money was lent to Kaupthing Reykjavik as an intercompany loan. This means that with the exception of its loan book, the isle of man operation has very few tangible assets that aren't in the hands of the parent and consequently the hands of the Icelandic government.

I feel for you all and hope that a governmental solution is found as I cannot see a purchaser coming in for the bank, with the exception of the aforementioned loan book.

I would tend to agree. If the only real "assets" is money owed to it by its parent company, Kaupthing hf, then this is very bad.

The reality is that Kaupthing hf's "assets" are 700% of Icelandic GDP - the size of the bank is far, far larger than the Icelandic economy. So Iceland is in big trouble and can't even contemplate anything like the UK goverment is doing for UK banks.

So - while Kaupthing hf may be morally or even legally obliged to help out their IoM subsidiary, I think the reality is they and the Icelandic goverment have much bigger problems to worry about. And at the end of the day - they'll look after Icelandic citizens first - as we would expect the British government to do for British citizens. Its Icelandic citizens that will get the Icelandic politicians re-elected after all, not British ones.

Sorry - to be negative - I'm facing a loss here too - but I think we also probably need to be realistic?

donal_f

inthebarrywhite? wrote: »

Can anyone tell me how many K IOM 'savers' there were, and eg what % are non-UK residents (ie unable to open UK savings a'cs) ?

ie Are there a lot of us in the same boat ?

Many Thanks

I am a UK resident, but non-domicile in the UK. So, even under the new non-dom rules, my wife and I could get up to £4,000 interest per year between us tax-free as long as the interest was earned offshore and not brought back into the UK. This was a £1,600 a year saving - so seemed worth the effort.

This was entirely legitimate tax avoidance in the same way opening an ISA or investing in a pension is. But clearly, depending on how the IoM guarantee scheme works out, it could prove to have been a costly strategy!

stanley317

exsinger wrote: »

Just so you know, the majority of KSF(IoM) deposit money was lent to Kaupthing Reykjavik as an intercompany loan. This means that with the exception of its loan book, the isle of man operation has very few tangible assets that aren't in the hands of the parent and consequently the hands of the Icelandic government.

The story from Dave Bradden (see below) who attended the liquidators meeting on the IoM was that the majority of the money (60%) was loaned to the UK KSF. Now you are saying that the majority was loaned to Reykjavic.
I'm sure we'd all agree that the UK loan sounds possibly "better" from our point of view. Your logon is exsinger, does these mean ex singer employee or depositor? Do you you have a reliable source for this information? If you are an ex employee do you know approximatelly how many customers are affected?

Dave_Braddan wrote: »

The administrator and the KSF director stated at the meeting this evening that the bank KSF in the IOM had approx £84 million of depositors' money. (don't quote me on these figures it was a long meeting ) aprox 60% of these monies were loaned to the UK KSF. 10% is retained at the IOM branch. Some of the remaining funds are in with the parent branch in Iceland. (sorry not too sure of the percentages but that was it roughly).

Monkeyface3604

Everyone!!!!

There has been an action group web site set up:

www.ksfiomdepositors.com

Get on there, get registered and lets get co ordinated!!!

james208_2

Hi guys,

Thanks for all your input.

Just to clarify, as I understand it:
1. The KSF (UK) is still operating, business as usual, though under administrarion.
2. KSF (IOM) is under admininistration, and has closed for business.
3. ING has taken over the the deposits of KSF (UK), which are safe.
4. KSF (IOM) had some £84 million deposits, most are in the KSF (UK) (60%), and IOM (10%) - in otherwords 70% deposit assets are safe in the UK.
5. I don't know how many depositors there are, but most were wealthy and KSF UK and IOM should be able to repay the first £50K to all of them from assets. In otherwords the MANX authorities don't need to ask other banks for funds for the compensatiom kity - this can be done straight away, can't it?

Some questions I have:

1. If the bradford and bingley takeover by Santander included the IOM business, why does this takeover by ING not be the same? Does any one know for sure that the ING specifically excluded IOM?

2. If KSF (UK) can continue to operate while under administration, why can't KSF(IOM)? The IOM operation was solid, had lots of deposits from a small number of wealthy clients, few loans, low cost of operation, etc.

3. Any on know how many depositors were at KSF(IOM)?

4. The meeting said that the bank would be open today for questions - if anyone gets any quesries answered, please post them here.

Knife_Edge

Thanks to Mat for setting up this website (http://www.ksfiomdepositors.com) - I've seen his story, and everyone else's and wanted to say thank you to him for setting up this site and to everyone for sharing their knowledge on this forum, it's been a great comfort to get the information (not least since it's not been forthcoming from other sources). I look forward to working together to maximise our recovery.

gomann

RHStone wrote: »

Made transfer From KSF(IOM) by BACS on 6th - Arrived in my account on 7th!

Clearly some strange transfer activity ... some of which seems quite random.

Mon 6 Oct @ 1300 - requested £5000 BACS.
Mon 6 Oct @ 1920 - requested £20,000 CHAPS
Both showed on-screen as "pending transfers".

Tue 7 Oct @ 1014 - £5000 BACS no longer showing as "pending transfer", only the £20,000.
Tue 7 Oct @ 1900 - £20,000 CHAPS had arrived in LTSB UK.
That suggests to me that at some stage late on 6 Oct, KE(IOM) pulled the plug on BACS transfers ... thus possibly allowing a couple of "transit days" to re-allocate the cash elsewhere before depositors noticed anything unusual?

How's that for a conspiracy theory?

Edited to note that Mat's site http://www.ksfiomdepositors.com/cms/?q=node/19 seems to confirm some strange time-lines and/or movements were happening.

mat_walker

Hi all,

A new website has been setup so we can help pool our resources and all get together. There were a few forums with folk on each so it made sense to bring us all together.

The Site is at www.ksfiomdepositors.com

If the confirmation email does not arrive, check your SPAM email folder. Some email programs have been puttiing the conf email in the SPAM folder.

Any other problems registering gimme a shout on [EMAIL="mat@alexview.com"]mat@alexview.com[/EMAIL] and i'll and sort it.

Mat Walker
Life Ruined

On_The_Beach_2

It might be worthwhile contacting BBC Radio 4’s personal finance programme, “Money Box”:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/programmes/moneybox/891726.stm