Need some advice on rude landlord

Captain_Mainwaring_2

Rick62 wrote: »

So if you 'buy' a leasehold flat with a 99 year lease are you also suggesting that the landlord has the right to a key? When you lease a property you have the right to that property, including the right to quiet enjoyment, which would encompass being secure.

The question is not 'where does it say that you can change the lock', the question is where does it say you can't? It is perfectly reasonable to change the lock (particularly if you keep the old one) as you don't know who has the key. The landlord or his representative does not have any cause to enter the property without arrangement with the tenants.

There is a fundamental difference between "rent" and "lease".

Quiet enjoyment allows a reasonable number of visits by th LL, especially if the tenant has already shown that ther are liable to cause damage to the property and thus a breach of the rental agreement.

Captain_Mainwaring_2

Whoops, I see now it is students.

Serves the LL right for renting to them. No good ever comes of it.

Should be the landlord changing the locks.

Gorgeous_George

Ah, this old chestnut.

There is no law regarding the tenant's right to change locks. There is a law regarding 'quiet enjoyment'. Depending on the circumstances, a Court may decide that the tenant is wrong to change the locks or that the tenant is right to change the locks. All depends on circumstance.

I change the locks to my BTL every time a tenant changes. That way, I know that previous tenants do not have a key. I keep a spare key for emergency access only and wouldn't dream of using it for any other circumstance.

If my tenant changed the locks, my AST (that they agreed to) requires them to notify me and provide a spare key. They could refuse, of course, but equally I could issue notice to quit or I could raise the rent to cover the new risk.

GG

tbs624

Rick62 wrote: »

So if you 'buy' a leasehold flat with a 99 year lease are you also suggesting that the landlord has the right to a key? When you lease a property you have the right to that property, including the right to quiet enjoyment, which would encompass being secure.

The question is not 'where does it say that you can change the lock', the question is where does it say you can't? It is perfectly reasonable to change the lock (particularly if you keep the old one) as you don't know who has the key.

Now this is where things start getting extrapolated - a tenant may not damage a rental property. Changing the barrel of an existing lock - after getting proper qualified legal advice, as stated before, is one thing - changing the lock itself becomes a different matter. Any tenant who does this and makes new holes, causes the original lock to fit less securely than before when re-affixed etc is likely to find themselves presented with a bill from a joiner and/or locksmith

Rick62 wrote: »

The landlord or his representative does not have any cause to enter the property without arrangement with the tenants.

You are confusing the issues IMO. A LL's right to enter a tenanted property, where that property is let under an AST, relate to the LLs statutory repairing obligations & are enshrined within S11 (6) of the LTA 1985 ). This is entirely different from any laws that apply to the purchase of a leasehold property:

"In a lease in which the lessor’s repairing covenant is implied there is also implied a covenant by the lessee that the lessor, or any person authorised by him in writing, may at reasonable times of the day and on giving 24 hours’ notice in writing to the occupier, enter the premises comprised in the lease for the purpose of viewing their condition and state of repair."

tbs624

Captain_Mainwaring wrote: »

I thought it was contrary to common law.....

It is , but common law is judge/court-established rather than statute -introduced.

Murder is "malum in se": the legal definition of murder can be traced back to LCJ Sir Edward Coke's 17C definition.

mellymeep

We decided against changing the lock on the door, I wasn't very happy doing it in the first place because despite the agency's rudeness I don't want to cause any more animosity between us and them, I just don't want to deal with the hassle of him coming round and kicking off about more damage.

Perhaps the LA, knowing that one girls has moved out, has not been kept fully in the picture over what is happening over the vacancy & future rent payments, maybe the other girls are persistently late in paying their rent, have caused other damage, or there may have been unanswered phone calls/letters sent to the tenants or friends making long term use of an empty room etc? Perhaps they had been trying unsuccessfully to arrange an inspection for several weeks? Or maybe the LA is one of those who being untrained and unregulated simply thinks he can do what he wants when he wants?

We've only been in the house a few months, all our rent is practically already paid as they have post dated cheque's from all of us.

I'm so annoyed with my other housemate's for causing the damage to the walls, and now leaving it all to me to sort out.. (we often don't get along, I knew moving in with friends from home would be a bad idea.) There's no point in trying to shift blame to each other though, we're all renting this house together so I understand we're all jointly liable, and I totally agree with people that we should from now on receive inspections, I'm not bothered about that at all, the agent can come round all he wants.. just as long as he doesn't let himself in with a key and turns up unannounced! I'm sure everyone else would agree that they wouldn't feel very happy if someone could just randomly walk into your home whenever they please! Its quite a scary prospect to be honest.

I'm sure i'm giving you the total side to the story, as I've described the agency were all smiles and "yes we'll send round contract cleaners to have the house perfect for you" "yes you'll all have a set of keys for every door in the house" "yes we have a hotline for all tenants to ring should they need maintenance work done" when we were sitting in the office signing the contract, but from the day we moved in it was a completely different story, the agent who was there was exceptionally rude to my mam when she asked why the house was left in such a state (thats when the lovely quote that we're happy to live in squalor because we're students came) the cleaners were not sent round despite paying money for it, and we received sets of keys which were completely useless as they didn't work on one single door in the entire house! after a whole week of having to stay in because we couldn't lock the front door one set of proper keys were given to us, and we were responsible for getting them cut for ourselves.

As far as i'm aware we've always been courteous and polite to these people, and have received nothing back but sheer rudeness.

mellymeep

Bungarm2001 wrote: »

My highlighting...

So, what do you do as a LL when it's the tenants (and I hate to say this but in years of experience it's usually students) trash the place while living in it? In other words, when the squalor is caused by themselves?

If I had noticed drawings on the walls whilst I was in the property for whatever reason, I would set up a series of regular inspections from then on because as far as I am concerned, the tenants had shown their total lack of respect for the property. Hopefully then my actions would shame the tenant into not treating the place like a playground.

I don't know what actual contract other LL's use, but we use one where we reserve the right to take regular inspections at times and dates agreeable to all parties concerned

We are ALWAYS mindful of the fact that our property is somone's home, even if they don't treat it that way, and we treat it with the utmost respect, as we treat thier feelings about strangers letting themselves in.

If there is an emergency, we try our best to contact the tenant(s) before letting ourselves in. We have NEVER had a problem with our tenants over this, mainly I think because they know us and most have our mob number.

As for the people on here advising others to change the locks, well, don't start me off....:mad:

I really wish you were my landlord

annie_d

My daughter is moving into a flat in the city centre. (First time of leaving home) It hadn't occurred to me before reading this thread but now i am concerned. What if someone who has previously stayed there or ANYONE, lets themself in with a key? I am interested in the "lock-changing legailty"
Thankyou

tbs624

mellymeep wrote: »

We decided against changing the lock on the door, I wasn't very happy doing it in the first place because despite the agency's rudeness I don't want to cause any more animosity between us and them, I just don't want to deal with the hassle of him coming round and kicking off about more damage.

Good to get an update - hopefully your letter will make the LA back off, and keep to the rules in future.

mellymeep wrote: »

...we're all renting this house together so I understand we're all jointly liable, and I totally agree with people that we should from now on receive inspections, I'm not bothered about that at all, the agent can come round all he wants.. just as long as he doesn't let himself in with a key and turns up unannounced! I'm sure everyone else would agree that they wouldn't feel very happy if someone could just randomly walk into your home whenever they please! Its quite a scary prospect to be honest.

We're on your side on this part Mellymeep - I don't think anyone has said that they agree with the LA letting himself in: it *is* unacceptable for him to do so unless there is a genuine emergency.

mellymeep wrote: »

I'm sure i'm giving you the total side to the story, as I've described the agency were all smiles and "yes we'll send round contract cleaners to have the house perfect for you" "yes you'll all have a set of keys for every door in the house" "yes we have a hotline for all tenants to ring should they need maintenance work done" when we were sitting in the office signing the contract, but from the day we moved in it was a completely different story, the agent who was there was exceptionally rude to my mam when she asked why the house was left in such a state (thats when the lovely quote that we're happy to live in squalor because we're students came) the cleaners were not sent round despite paying money for it...

Can I just check Melly - are you saying that you paid extra to the the LA for the property to be cleaned at the start of your tenancy?

Were you given an inventory of the property, its furnishings & condition etc at the start of the tenancy? Take some photos now (with a dated newspaper in shot) to keep for the end of your tenancy.

mellymeep wrote: »

...and we received sets of keys which were completely useless as they didn't work on one single door in the entire house! after a whole week of having to stay in because we couldn't lock the front door one set of proper keys were given to us, and we were responsible for getting them cut for ourselves.

not acceptable - clearly you should have been given a key each, rather than having to pay for extra ones. You mention locks on other doors ? You may want to check with the private sector rentals team at the council, as mentioned before, what the local rules are on licensing for HMOs (Houses In Multiple Occupation) .

mellymeep wrote: »

As far as i'm aware we've always been courteous and polite to these people, and have received nothing back but sheer rudeness.

Let us know what response you get - and do use the Uni accomms office and the Council TRo if necessary for back up.

Edit: has the LA/LL scheme-registered your deposits yet btw?

olly300

annie_d wrote: »

My daughter is moving into a flat in the city centre. (First time of leaving home) It hadn't occurred to me before reading this thread but now i am concerned. What if someone who has previously stayed there or ANYONE, lets themself in with a key? I am interested in the "lock-changing legailty"
Thankyou

Read all the previous posts.

Also you should be aware that some landlords put locks on the front door where you can't cut copies of keys without permission from the landlord. This means they know exactly the number of keys for that property in circulation and old tenants don't have the keys.

It's not illegal but don't do it unless you have to. The main reasons for doing it are:
1. Old tenants having keys
2. LL or a representative of theirs harassing the tenant.

In the first case you try and get the landlord to change the locks for you. Then if that fails you change it yourself and give them a copy of the key. Make sure the actual landlord gets a key not just the letting agent. You don't have to but for other reasons it's best to. Also then you can get away without changing the locks back when you move out. The best thing is to ask though before moving out, otherwise they can use it as an excuse to take money from your deposit.

In the second case you make it clear by sending written letters that you can prove they have received, that they are harassing you before doing it. By harassing I mean repeatedly entering the property without your permission or moving your stuff around for no reason. Normally if you threaten to inform the police and then do, you don't have to go as far as changing the locks. If you do then don't give the landlord the key and you should change the locks back when you move out.

Either way if you change the locks you mustn't damage the door.

Personally all the people I know who have been burgled have never been burgled by old tenants. Even when I lived in a house where we made the landlord change the locks and then suffered a break in, the guy who got caught was some local burglar.