Are we as a society basically broken?

carolt

pickledpink wrote: »

And where exactly will these degenerates find jobs? Or will NEW LABOUR create a job for them?

By the way, "ensuing financial problems" do not resolve social ills: it CREATES them!

Everyone knows that crime rises in times of poverty...............that should be obvious to you!

You may crave for Dickensian days where people were sent to the workhouse for peanuts - but times haved moved on rather................:p

Sorry - did you read any of my post?

What are you talking about? Where do Dickensian workhouses come into it?

My point was exactly that your so-called 'degenerates would learn the values of thrift and hard work if forced to, not necessarily in work but in life.

Of course, my wish may well be wrong. You, having often attacked me and those who believe house prices will fall as pessimists and doom-sayers, interestingly paint a far more pessimistic and doom-laden picture here, and it may well come to pass. I hope not, though - maybe I have a little more faith in humanity than you.

For my part, I try to bring my children up to be the kind of people I would like them to be - what do you do to create the society you would like to see?

Moaning is easy. Action is harder, but better.

tomstickland

The people that I encounter daily seem fine. As strong in spirits and good nature as ever. I have to suspect that there are areas where this is not the case and life is an endless mix of frustration, petty crime, violence and probably drug abuse.

WTF?_2

tomstickland wrote: »

The people that I encounter daily seem fine. As strong in spirits and good nature as ever. I have to suspect that there are areas where this is not the case and life is an endless mix of frustration, petty crime, violence and probably drug abuse.

It only takes a certain proportion of bad 'uns to ruin it for everyone.

You only have to look at the way one or two 'problem' families can wreck an entire area. There have been discussions on that here before, IIRC.

Once you exceed the threshold of troublemakers in a community, things go downhill pretty fast for everyone.

Would anyone here rush to intervene if they saw anti-social behaviour going on? First, you'd probably be met with violence. Second, if you did anything physical to stop them or defend yourself, you'd end up in trouble with the police.

carolt

True, but maybe those exceptions are balanced out by the other exceptions - those who risk themselves and undertake individual acts of great bravery and courage to help others.

I personally know of many examples from my father's experiences under the Nazis - proving that even when facing the greatest evil, some people have incredible courage and integrity and (unfashionable word) goodness.

Bless them.

tomstickland

The fear thing is a problem. Say three yobs started kicking a fence down, then ideally people would appear from every house, tell them to stop and if they didn't use physical force to make the point. That's how I've always thought it should happen. However, when you read about someone being knifed you tend to think "maybe I should just hide in my house and live to tell the story".
Either that or make sure enough force is used, but you know who'll be charged with assualt.

So maybe we have a problem of children who've had no standards instilled in them who think that they can do whatever they want at all times and then becoming agitated the first time someone says no to them.

neverdespairgirl

!!!!!!? wrote: »

Would anyone here rush to intervene if they saw anti-social behaviour going on? First, you'd probably be met with violence. Second, if you did anything physical to stop them or defend yourself, you'd end up in trouble with the police.

My Dad and a neighbour did a citizens' arrest of 2 lads breaking into an off-licence, once.

WTF?_2

tomstickland wrote: »

So maybe we have a problem of children who've had no standards instilled in them who think that they can do whatever they want at all times and then becoming agitated the first time someone says no to them.

And the thing is that they can do whatever they want at all times. Our society facilitates, nay encourages, it.

Their parents won't discipline them.
The schools can't discipline them any more.
The police won't touch them.

And if you as a member of the community say something or stand up against their anti-social behaviour then you is in 4 a gud kickin' as you is a pedo, innit?

dad-of-4

Max_Headroom wrote: »

Listening to the news at lunchtime about the poor chap that was kicked to death after going to the aid of somewone being attacked.

If you look at the kind of stories you hear regularly, kids knifing other kids, people attacked in the street, old people being mugged, rising drug problems, prisons unable to cope resulting in people not going to prison when they should (and more to the point knowing that they're not going to go to prison for certain serious offences), benefit reliance (people going straight from school onto the dole and housing, via a couple of pregnancies), rising teen pregnancy, parents unwilling/unable to control or disipline their children, gangs of kids on street corners, etc etc.

You eventually have to ask, is in fact society effectively bankrupt, not just the financial system?

Are we as a society just going to get pulled down by the ever rising cesspit of humanity in much the same way that the banks (cornerstones of our societies financial wellbeing) are being pulled down by the cesspit of irresponsible lending/borrowing?

Is what we see happening to our financial world merely a metaphor for what's happening in society?

I believe most people are socially and financially responsible, but an ever rising "want it now/get rich quick/live the dream" element are dragging us all down. Is this not the case with society in general?

i certainly think so, society is rotten and bankrupt at every level, i also think it has been engineered that way by the powers that bee. "divide & conquer" style.

effective protests, strikes, riots, civil disobedience are a thing of the past. put up bend over and pay more tax is the order of the day.

were so fractured as a society we need a nanny & big brother to hold our hand in the dark, cos we dont know our neighbour well enough to ask for a candle. and if we have a candle were certainly not willing to share.

ray123

It is called democracy!

Phirefly

dad-of-4 wrote: »

i certainly think so, society is rotten and bankrupt at every level, i also think it has been engineered that way by the powers that bee. "divide & conquer" style.

effective protests, strikes, riots, civil disobedience are a thing of the past. put up bend over and pay more tax is the order of the day.

were so fractured as a society we need a nanny & big brother to hold our hand in the dark, cos we dont know our neighbour well enough to ask for a candle. and if we have a candle were certainly not willing to share.

Is that really the case on the whole? In another thread today I commented that the kind of anti-social, immoral and unintelligent behaviour being discussed there represented the rule in our society rather than the exception... Thats just a suspicion though. In my personal experience, like tomstickland, most people I encounter are generally decent. My neighbours are all lovely people... should I be counting myself extremely lucky for this 'rarity'?