Are we as a society basically broken?

mewbie_2

Here's a link from a highly respected paper -

http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/article1753959.ece

Up to ten men it says fled after the attack. I didn't use the link from the Asia Times, as I thought you might trust this one more.

Here's another highly trusted source...

http://news.sky.com/skynews/Home/UK-News/Barclays-Banking-Executive-Frank-McGarahan-Dies-After-He-Interneved-In-Norwich-Fight/Article/200809415109861?lpos=UK_News_Top_Stories_Header_1&lid=ARTICLE_15109861_Barclays_Banking_Executive_Frank_McGarahan_Dies_After_He_Interneved_In_Norwich_Fight

This says "The Lithuanian man received medical attention, but was not seriously injured".

So it would appear to be up to ten British yobs started a bit of bashing (maybe not racist, maybe just for a laugh) and his injuries were prevented from being too serious thanks to someone standing up for him.

hethmar

He was fortunate then wasnt he. The poor Banker took the brunt. I dare say, knowing the actual place and seeing the queues/aggro there every week that it was a case of a lot of drunks getting into a fight, as is the case every week, not involving immigrants, involving anyone who happens to be in the same place. Had this poor guy not hit his head and died it wouldnt have even been in the news. The incident happened at 3 a.m. in the morning.

I cant understand why you seem to think I am so against foreigners - I am for justice and for common sense. To ignore the obvious problems in our current situation is really asking for more trouble. As I said previously mewbie, people who have been very liberal in the area are actually now saying they would vote for extremists, not because they want them in, but because it would show the government how strong the feeling is that the whole situation is out of control. By ignoring the truth we are encouraging extremists - can you not see that?

carolt

hethmar wrote: »

And yes, that is certainly the case. I did say also that there were fights between different groups of immigrants - and we have had several murders of immigrants by immigrants, not to mention deaths from drunken driving.

However, as I have said, we do not know the cause of this particular incident as yet and I dont see why we should assume it was just because someone was a foreigner. I cant see how they would have know he was clearly an immigrant unless something else had happened to start an argument. We shall have to wait and see.

You could easily tell if he was an immigrant if he opened his mouth and started chatting to his girlfriend, say! He would hardly need to be involved in an argument for that to be obvious.

In my sons case, he was alone with his girlfriend - he was 20 she was 18. As they left a pub, the group of immigrants who had been told to leave the pub because they were drunk - were outside - they grabbed the girlfriends breasts and bottom and started trying to kiss her. My son told them to "go away" and walked down the road with his girlfriend. He said the next thing he heard was pounding running and after that he was on the ground being kicked and beaten by 9 of them as his girlfriend stood screaming for help. It was on cctv. The police said there was little point in pursuing the matter, that they would claim "racial abuse" "they always do that every time". We tried to further an arrest/prosecution - son was warned by friends the last person who did that received a machete attack one night. So there you are, 3 weeks work lost for son, broken ribs, face so black and swollen I didnt recognise him. I thanked god he was still alive to be honest.

The closest I've come to being violently attacked was by a group of Arab men, whilst on holiday. But do I spend my time hating/blaming all Arab men for this? No - because not all were guilty.

You asked for the story, Ive told you. But I am still not blaming every immigrant for the explosion of crime. I am blaming the government for not controlling immigration into this country. I also blame them for allowing our own feral youths to roam cities looking for trouble. You are trying to make me seem racist when I am certainly not. Had the group who beat up my son been brit low life Id be just as incensed. But being so liberal and bending over backwards to show you are not a racist is really not helping the situation at all.

Blaming all immigrants because of what happened to you son, whilst psychologically understandable, is not exactly helping the situation either.

The fact is, in previous economic downturns, immigrants have been the first scapegoats for all of society's ills. Attacking them may relieve your feelings, but it doesn't actually improve our society one little bit.

What CONSTRUCTIVE solutions can you now suggest, given that immigration has been allowed and the immigrants are now here?

.................................................

WTF?_2

Mindless violence and thuggery with a xenophobic twist is nothing new.

I remember the 1990 World Cup semi-final game, England vs West Germany. The Germans won and after closing time the streets were filled with drunken yobs from the pubs who first turned upon every parked car from a German manufacturer they could find - then just started smashing up bus shelters and having fights with each other.

carolt

hethmar wrote: »

By ignoring the truth we are encouraging extremists - can you not see that?

What is this 'truth'?

That all immigrants are crooks? That all immigrants are 'bad', in some vague undefined way?

Nonsense.

A discussion on the difficulties caused by immigration need not and should not focus negatively on the immigrants themselves. By all means, focus your discontent on the govt, if insufficient resources are coming your way to successfully integrate these people into British society.

But it is not their fault if the door is opened to them, and they come here in search of a better life.

Those who would vote for extremists don't want to improve their society. They want to abdicate responsibility by saying 'it's someone else's fault'.

It's always easier to blame others - outsiders - for long-standing problems.

That doesn't make it right.

carolt

!!!!!!? wrote: »

Mindless violence and thuggery with a xenophobic twist is nothing new.

I remember the 1990 World Cup semi-final game, England vs West Germany. The Germans won and after closing time the streets were filled with drunken yobs from the pubs who first turned upon every parked car from a German manufacturer they could find - then just started smashing up bus shelters and having fights with each other.

Aaaah, England, what a great country? :rolleyes:

mewbie_2

This is the one that stuck in my mind...

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/norfolk/3842213.stm

I'm not a football fan, but I think it's great how it can bring people together across the world in a common passion - I am not being sarcastic, I think it does that for a lot of people.

What a shame that a few have to spoilt it. Not just UK lads, but lads across the world of course. However, as a member of a British society, it is British bad behaviour that I am more interested in. Something about "removing the mote in your own eye first"...

hethmar

carolt, I dont think you are reading what I have written. I have NOT blamed all immigrants for what happened to my son - I say that clearly in my posting.

"You asked for the story, Ive told you. But I am still not blaming every immigrant for the explosion of crime. I am blaming the government for not controlling immigration into this country. I also blame them for allowing our own feral youths to roam cities looking for trouble. You are trying to make me seem racist when I am certainly not. Had the group who beat up my son been brit low life Id be just as incensed. But being so liberal and bending over backwards to show you are not a racist is really not helping the situation at all.

Blaming all immigrants because of what happened to you son, whilst psychologically understandable, is not exactly helping the situation either. "

You can see above Ive said exactly the opposite to what you are claiming.

The truth is, as Ive said several times now, that uncontrolled immigration is leading to tension in our communities.

I HAVE focused my discontent on the government, again Ive said that clearly several times.

I have also said that I do NOT blame immigrants for our long standing problems.

I have said all the above clearly several times now in my postings but you seem to ignore that, why?


I feel you have taken a stand which has blinkered you and its that sort of blinkered thinking which will cause the problems to get worse.

hethmar

carolt wrote: »

Aaaah, England, what a great country? :rolleyes:

carolt, I have also stated that the government needs to get control of our own feral low life.


But yes, it WAS a great country and obviously millions of immigrants still believe that. Have you ever lived in Eastern Europe, or Africa or Asia? Do you want to go there to live?

carolt

I'm glad to hear our views are not that dissimilar.

I do think England is a great country, actually, contrary to the OP, and doubt I could ever/would ever wish to live anywhere else - see my earlier posts in this thread.

I have to say that one of the things I'm proudest about and love most about this country is our (relative) tolerance and diversity.

We're not perfect, of course, but I am very proud of the fact that in the 30's when much of Europe succumbed to fascism, we did not.

English sense of 'fair play', I think it might be.

Lovely country.