Are we as a society basically broken?

hethmar

If the boys charges are Brits - I cant see what that has to do with anti immigrant feeling. They have allegedly killed a Brit, not an immigrant. I dont think anyone said the alleged killers were immigrants did they?

I think the discussion re immigrants was concerning the tension the unrestricted inflow is causing in local communities. Which it is, without doubt.

carolt

The trouble started because they attacked a Lithuanian first - the guy who was killed was attempting to defend him and stop the trouble.

But to blame the victims for causing the trouble simply by existing and being 'different' seems an abdication of our responsibility.

Surely we British should be able to come across a foreigner without feeling the need to attack him? :rolleyes:

mewbie_2

Here's my original comment..

"It would appear that it was Good Old British Locals, who did not like being told to stop attacking an immigrant, that then kicked the banker to death."

... jumping to conclusions.

I think we can both argue our own points on this one. You have raised the concerns with immigration, and how it is handled, and NDG has added some interesting material on that subject. I am sure there is lots of sensible debate that could be had on that, but it is not a field I have any knowledge of. Apart from my comparison of their work ethic, which was apparently racist.

My main concern is more how our British lads behave to anyone they perceive as different to themselves, such as foreigners, immigrants, gays, rich, poor, disabled - the list seems endless for these self appointed "defenders of the country".

It would seem that the banker was killed because he defended an immigrant - a generous action on his part - and I would say started by a racist attack on the boys part.
However, it may not have been racist, because these sub human idiots that roam the streets, are apparently entitled to attack anyone they don't like the look of.

Sorry, I don't have a conclusion, or argument - so bit of a pointless post.

hethmar

Until we know the facts carolt we cant surmise the reasons for the attack. The story started off with a "youngster and his girlfriend" being attacked - it then became a 35 year old with a 45 year old girlfriend. So nothing is clear as yet. We cant make judgments on why or who caused the fight.

I doubt if they would have attacked someone merely because he was a foreigner - I think more will come to light.

I should imagine the Banker would have defended anyone in that situation, as he was probably that sort of chap - plus lets not all forget this was the early hours of Sunday morning and everyone involved had been on a "night out". Sadly, the chap who died was very unfortunate, he hit his head which caused his tragic death. A million to one chance I should think, very sad.

carolt

hethmar wrote: »

If the boys charges are Brits - I cant see what that has to do with anti immigrant feeling. They have allegedly killed a Brit, not an immigrant. I dont think anyone said the alleged killers were immigrants did they?

I think the discussion re immigrants was concerning the tension the unrestricted inflow is causing in local communities. Which it is, without doubt.

I do agree that immigration causes tensions - but to let people in and then beat them up hardly seems the solution.

Immigration does need to be managed better and resources allocated effectively so that no local people are worse off as a result.

That said, the Polish people say, who have got jobs here, have not got them at the expense of the locals largely - they got them because the locals were too lazy to actually sully their hands doing any of the nasty jobs the immigrants were prepared to do.

When did you last see a native, white, British toilet attendant/cleaner, say?

mewbie_2

hethmar wrote: »

Until we know the facts carolt we can surmise the reasons for the attack. The story started off with a "youngster and his girlfriend" being attacked - it then became a 35 year old with a 45 year old girlfriend. So nothing is clear as yet. We cant make judgments on why or who caused the fight.

I doubt if they would have attacked someone merely because he was a foreigner - I think more will come to light.

Rest assured I will post each new link as it becomes available. I don't think the police will go for the racist attack charge, always difficult to prove, but I think they will be more interested to making the murder charge stick.

You say you doubt they attacked him because he was a foreigner. So possibly they had a different 'reason'!!! They didn't like his dog, or fancied his girlfriend. They just thought that ten on to one was the right way to end a good night out - fighting, or more accurately bullying someone at a taxi rank. And people wonder why I despise this element of British society.

carolt

hethmar wrote: »

I doubt if they would have attacked someone merely because he was a foreigner - I think more will come to light.

Yet in an earlier post, you claimed you knew lots of instances where immigrants attacked locals because they were not one of them.

You are entitled to draw your conclusions, and I will draw mine.

The fact is, some locals attacked a Lithuanian and then murdered someone who stepped in to help him.

It seems pretty clear to me who is at fault - and it's NOT the Lithuanian.

hethmar

Was it 10 on 1? I thought it was 3 20 year old boys and what 4 40 year old blokes fighting? (All Brits)

Certainly in my sons case - it was 9 immigrants on 1 20 year old Brit - but no one was arrested or charged. Even though cctv showed 3 immigrants kicking his head in. And witnesses gave statements.

carolt, no one has said it was the Lithuanian at fault. It certainly seems unlikely he was. But it doesnt mean that it was a racial attack - there seems to be no mention of him being injured at all, does there? Knowing the actual place of the incident, I would add, there are fights there every Saturday night/Sunday morning, as in most city centres after people have been out drinking all evening.

carolt

No - it may not have been a racist attack - but it certainly doesn't reflect well on the native Brits!

Was it a racist attack in your son's case?

hethmar

carolt wrote: »

Yet in an earlier post, you claimed you knew lots of instances where immigrants attacked locals because they were not one of them

And yes, that is certainly the case. I did say also that there were fights between different groups of immigrants - and we have had several murders of immigrants by immigrants, not to mention deaths from drunken driving.

However, as I have said, we do not know the cause of this particular incident as yet and I dont see why we should assume it was just because someone was a foreigner. I cant see how they would have know he was clearly an immigrant unless something else had happened to start an argument. We shall have to wait and see.

In my sons case, he was alone with his girlfriend - he was 20 she was 18. As they left a pub, the group of immigrants who had been told to leave the pub because they were drunk - were outside - they grabbed the girlfriends breasts and bottom and started trying to kiss her. My son told them to "go away" and walked down the road with his girlfriend. He said the next thing he heard was pounding running and after that he was on the ground being kicked and beaten by 9 of them as his girlfriend stood screaming for help. It was on cctv. The police said there was little point in pursuing the matter, that they would claim "racial abuse" "they always do that every time". We tried to further an arrest/prosecution - son was warned by friends the last person who did that received a machete attack one night. So there you are, 3 weeks work lost for son, broken ribs, face so black and swollen I didnt recognise him. I thanked god he was still alive to be honest.

You asked for the story, Ive told you. But I am still not blaming every immigrant for the explosion of crime. I am blaming the government for not controlling immigration into this country. I also blame them for allowing our own feral youths to roam cities looking for trouble. You are trying to make me seem racist when I am certainly not. Had the group who beat up my son been brit low life Id be just as incensed. But being so liberal and bending over backwards to show you are not a racist is really not helping the situation at all.