URGENT Orange Ending Free 0800 calls

steve199_259_319

Hi,

I'm a new member, who found this great Forum and Martin's website through a Google search about Orange ending free 0800 phone calls. I am on Everyday 50, like several who have posted on this subject. I did not know immediately about the change in my tariff, because the notification was just a message on the front page of my November Invoice and hardly noticeable. I was not aware of this until I heard the recorded message the first time I tried to call a 0800 number after the change came into effect. Several of you have been told that you will get a Freephone bundle for as long as you remain on your current tariff. I certainly believe you all when you have stated this in your posting, but I have it in writing from the Executive Office that this is not so. Everyone will have it for 12 months MAXIMUM, then you will have to pay for these calls. This is typical of Orange giving wrong information to customers. Has anyone had this promise in writing, because if you have not then they will be able to easily avoid giving you what they promised? Even if you have it confirmed in writing, they will still say this was a mistake and will try to take this off you after the 12 months has ended. At least if you have a written agreement you can take legal action if they try to break this.

Unfortunately, I could get the bundle myself as it was withdrawn early January and it can no longer be applied to my or any other customers account. They have offered a lesser compensation, but once again only for 12 months. I think this was a very bad decision by Orange and ended what was a competitive edge that they have had since the company started in the UK. However, it seems that those who were using the free 0800 calls for accessing other phone operators lines, have spoilt it for the customers like myself who only called normal free phone numbers, for example to phone in traffic reports to radio station's, call breakdown services, call sales companies using 0500/0800 numbers etc.

Regards,


Steve.

mobilegossip

Yes but 0800 calls to Intl Access Numbers were mainly chargeable on Orange.So i dont think you can put the blame on people that dialled them because you cant use the service.

The blame lies entirely with Orange who wanted to grab a bit more revenue off its long suffering customers.

steve199_259_319

Hi Mobilegossip,

I agree that most of the blame lies with greedy Orange and their desire to make more money, but someone from an Orange Retail Shop stated their decision was influenced by the hassle of administering the blocking of 0800 access numbers. Obviously, if these are to enable a customer to make International calls that were otherwise unavailable, then I can understand.

Thanks for your comments.

Regards,


Steve.

DonnyDave

steve199_259_319 wrote:

... but someone from an Orange Retail Shop stated their decision was influenced by the hassle of administering the blocking of 0800 access numbers. ...

But this is a result of the ineffective Ofcom who allow freephone numbers not to be free! If all freephone numbers were free from (the majority of) mobiles, then consumers would know where they stand. If that means increasing charges elsewhere, then so be it. At least we wouldn't have the ridiculous situation where mobile subscribers pay for (in some cases more than they do for geographical calls) and the receiver pays to make the call free in the first place!

iceburn

maybe 0800 should be setup that if the call is made from a mobile, the reciever will not pay to recieve the call since the charge has already been paid (from the caller) and the mobile company can pass some of the charge to the 0800 provider.

redux

A load of invective aimed at Ofcom is totally irrelevant; the only thing they have done is allow companies to make their own decisions.

While we were able to call an 0800 number to make cheap calls from the mobile, and all the time it was crowed about as a loophole, the provider of the number was obviously not paying; how do we know? - because the real cost was not being charged back to us.

Try it abroad. Some 0800 calling card numbers are blocked from some networks, both fixed and mobile. Some are free, but the tariff on the calling card may be higher for calls from callboxes and mobiles, to compensate them for their costs. The trick is to find a third category, a card without surcharges that is unrecognised and not blocked.

In this country, Orange has given up making the effort and blocked all the calls. The other networks disallowed these calls much earlier, or never allowed them at all.

Where is the greed, and the abuse? Every time we called via 08081 to 1899 etc, we knew we were taking advantage, and that it might not last. Even the people with the extended freephone bundle may find that Orange have applied more analysis to 0800 calls by now and eliminated more of them.

I agree with other people though, that Orange and T-mobile charging these calls outside the inclusive minutes seems rather sharp practice. O2 can manage it from inclusive, but I'm not sure about 3 or Vodafone.

DonnyDave

redux wrote:

A load of invective aimed at Ofcom is totally irrelevant; the only thing they have done is allow companies to make their own decisions.

Yes, and when it suits them they act together; they are operating as an oligopoly.

redux wrote:

While we were able to call an 0800 number to make cheap calls from the mobile, and all the time it was crowed about as a loophole, the provider of the number was obviously not paying; how do we know? - because the real cost was not being charged back to us.

But what is the real cost of a freephone number? And how is it obvious that the recipient was not paying? They pay the same to receive the call no matter where the call comes from. So, by the same token, the mobile network must receive the same payment as a landline telco. It is the mobile network that decides to charge what they charge.

redux wrote:

In this country, Orange has given up making the effort and blocked all the calls. The other networks disallowed these calls much earlier, or never allowed them at all.

But it is only reacting to the competition. They all charge for freephone numbers, so why not jump on the bandwagon?

redux wrote:

Where is the greed, and the abuse? Every time we called via 08081 to 1899 etc, we knew we were taking advantage, and that it might not last. Even the people with the extended freephone bundle may find that Orange have applied more analysis to 0800 calls by now and eliminated more of them.

Taking advantage of what? The question is should freephone numbers be free to the caller?

I believe that they should be, and that market forces should decide what the recipient pays to make that call free, in the same way that the price to callers for other numbers should be decided. Thus, if it's economically viable for services like 1899 to operate on freephone numbers, then so be it. This would provide healthy competition to network operators.

redux wrote:

I agree with other people though, that Orange and T-mobile charging these calls outside the inclusive minutes seems rather sharp practice. O2 can manage it from inclusive, but I'm not sure about 3 or Vodafone.

So you do agree that to charge above geographical rates is "sharp practice." How can you have a fair market, a level playing field if you like, if freephone numbers only have to be free from landlines?

redux

DonnyDave wrote:

But what is the real cost of a freephone number? And how is it obvious that the recipient was not paying? They pay the same to receive the call no matter where the call comes from. So, by the same token, the mobile network must receive the same payment as a landline telco.

How is it not obvious?

Suppose someone used 1899's 08081 access number in the past for both international and national calls, and had their Orange contract down to the minimum monthly line rental.

What was the per minute tariff to UK landlines at its lowest ever? Did this cover the cost of making the call? Were 1899 paying Orange to receive the call and passing this charge back to their subscriber, from their ultra-low call tariff?

I doubt it.

And call charges are higher on mobile networks, by the way

DonnyDave

redux wrote:

How is it not obvious?

The only conclusion that I can come to is that you have taken the fact that mobile networks charge for freephone numbers as an indication that they don't get paid.

redux wrote:

What was the per minute tariff to UK landlines at its lowest ever? Did this cover the cost of making the call? ...

That would be upto the service provider; it may be a lost leader.

redux wrote:

... Were 1899 paying Orange to receive the call and passing this charge back to their subscriber, from their ultra-low call tariff?

I doubt it.

But the telecoms provider of the NGN (in this case an 0808 number) pays the originating telco, in this case Orange. This is the way these numbers work. Having read the Ofcom consultation NTS: A way forward, which explains how these numbers work, there is no mention that NGN telcos can 'opt-out' of paying originating providers.

redux wrote:

And call charges are higher on mobile networks, by the way

But as I said, these costs should be recouped elsewhere. Instead, companies connect to freephone numbers and pay for receiving those calls, and then some customers incur charges to those numbers! Mobile providers are holding people to ransome as they all act together.

What's more, are these higher costs really variable and dependant on call volume? If not, why do we not pay [fixed] line rental with lower value calls, similar to a landline?

pault123

Orange told me the freephone bundle would remain that way until I upgraded my phone, as its due next month i've called them today and been told the freephone bundle is being taken off as soon as i recieve my upgrade.

So they want me to hold onto my old knackered phone and never upgrade again if I want to retain the freephone bundle.

Any suggestions?