first:utility - new energy company launches

Premier_2

Let's look at the figures.

I've chosen the Northern area as an example, but feel sure the situation will be similar for other areas.

Single rate:
First Utility: 14.64p per unit plus 12.62p per day standing charge
Ebico: 11.33p per unit, no standing charge


E7 rate:
First Utility: 16.70p per unit day, 9.00p per unit night, plus 12.87p per day standing charge
Ebico: 15.06p per unit day, 3.95p per unit night, no standing charge


Triple rate:
First Utility: rates from 11.32p (between 8pm and 6am) to 17.33p per unit, plus 12.62p per day standing charge
Ebico: not offered, but compare to single rate of 11.33p per unit, no standing charge


Ebico charge the same rate however the customer pays, including on receipt of bill. In line with most other suppliers, where ebico issue a bill based on an estimated reading, you can contact them with your own actual reading and a revised bill will be sent out - that way you only pay for what you've actually consumed.

I think the marketing speak about possibly making the various 5% - 15% savings suggested by First Utility can be seen for the waffle it indeed is.

Cardew

jayvee5 wrote: »

Trials of smart meters show 10-15% reduction in use of electricity.

Notwithstanding your subsequent posts, it is still disingenous for you to 'claim' those savings because a meter you fit makes people more aware of their consumption.

Getting a £10 power measuring meter or even a £30 Electrisave/Owl type meter will do a far better job of making you aware of what is consuming electricity.

The bottom line is that your prices per kWh must be competitive to receive any endorsement on a Money Saving Website.

1carminestocky

Now, if jayvee5 was a UW distributor as opposed to an employee of first:utility and making these claims I genuinely don't want to imagine the virtual mauling he would get on here. This forum can be a very strange one at times, lol...where's Quentin?

1carminestocky

Oh God, I hope for your sake that isn't him, lol...

Cardew

jayvee5 wrote: »

If the Energy Savings Trust are prepared to say they can save up to 15% - I don't understand why I can't??

Ref power display meter - doesn't stack up in the research - energy display units/OWLS don't hold comparative data so you can't do month/month day/day hour/hour comparisons. Research shows it has to be over time as people reduce energy when they have something to compare against - they set themselves goals.

BTW - not looking for 'cheapest' endorsement - just that there is a choice for consumers. What I like about this site best is the choices it gives - I don't always go for the cheapest.

Genuinely - take a look at this following page - click on "view" -and tell me why this would not help people reduce their energy use? Don't you think every energy company should be able to show their customers this?
http://www.first-utility.com/residential/residential-onlineaccount.htm

p.s. I've got a brother called Quentin - does he come on this site too?? lol

This meter:

http://uk.aldi.com/uk/html/offers/2867_7248.htm

costs £6.99 and measures the cumulative consumption of all plug in appliances. i.e. plug in your fridge freezer and leave it for 24 hours(or any period of time) and it will tell you exactly how much electricity it has used.

So you are aware of the consumption of the majority of appliances and the contribution they make to your bill.

That of course is something 'your' smart meter cannot do!

If I really do want to know my daily consumption I can look at my 'old fashioned' meter, after all that measures down to 0.1 kWh.

To expect people to pay a premium on their electricity for the advantage of a meter that gives a detailed breakdown of overall consumption, but saves nothing, is naive.

I have a computer on my car that gives me a breakdown of average fuel consumption and 'instantaneous' consumption. If the car manufacturer claimed that this saved me 10% to 15% on my fuel consumption, then I suggest the Advertising Standards Authority would have plenty to say!!

Premier_2

jayvee5 wrote:

Premier
With respect, I still don't think you get smart meters - they are a two-way communications device collecting electricity consumption data 48 times a day - where a 'big six' energy company collects it once a year.

The big six generally read meters four times per year, i.e. once per quarter just before they produce the bill. I think the odd one or two may only read them twice per year in an attempt to save money and base the intermediate bill on an estimate. As I said, where an estiamte is issued, then a revised bill can usually be sent based on a customer's own reading.

jayvee5 wrote:

Why should anyone have to phone in readings?? - it saves the incumbents money which they pay to their shareholders??? Also they don't send any analysis back - no comparative data you can use??

A customer doesn't have to supply their own reading. As I say, most companies read the meter every 3 months in order to produce the bill. Only where no reading is made, does the company then base the bill on an estimate. Where an estimate has been used, a customer can supply their own reading if they require a more accurate bill. Ebico have a freefone automated service for this or it can be done online, which I'm sure is similar to most of the big six too.

True, there is no 'analysis' of the consumption - just a simple report on how much has been used, the calculation of the cost and the amount due. I wonder how much value any 'analysis' would be to an average customer? Take a look at a number of threads on here by people who are confused by even the basic data supplied. I suspect any 'analysis' will be ignored by the average customer.

jayvee5 wrote:

When they put their prices up how many units are you charged at the old rate and how many at the new much higher rate? They pretty much decide! A smart meter would be accurate to within 30 minutes. How much is that alone worth?

Yes they decide based on estmated usage, details of which are given in the bill. Again, if a customer thinks this is wrong it can be challenged and the supplier will probably accept any reasonable proposal. At the last increase by one of the big six, I remember reading that when such estmations were challenged, the supplier simply charged all that bills units at the old, lower rate - the amount in question simply wasn't worth arguing about

Alternatively, a customer may supply their own reading to the supplier on the day the prices change, thereby ensuring an accurate bill

WEith regards to Ebico, they have only changed their prices a total of 2 times in the last 6-9 years, so I reallky don't think the effect would be worth worrying about too much.

jayvee5 wrote:

With the readings you can interrogate daily data online to see where you are consuming electicity, your base rates etc.. Research shows again and again that if you have comparative data you can act.

Before calling a 5-15% saving "waffle" you should read of some of the following research and also look at smart meters on the energy savings trust website:

S. Barr, A.W. Gilg, N. Ford, The household energy gap: examining the
divide between habitual- and purchase-related conservation behaviours,
Energy Policy 33 (11) (2005) 1425–1444.
L.T. McCalley, C.J.H. Midden, Energy conservation through productintegrated
feedback: the roles of goal-setting and social orientation,
Journal of Economic Psychology 23 (2002) 589–603.
T. Ueno, F. Sano, O. Saeki, K. Tsuji, Analysis on energy saving activities
induced by information display systems in residential houses, in: P.
Bertoldi, F. Conti, R. Pagani (Eds.), EEDAL 2003 Proceedings of the
Third International Conference on Energy Efficiency in Domestic Appliances

and Lighting, Softec, Turin, Italy, 2004, pp. 771–776.

I think the debate needs to move away from who can find the cheapest rate on a website (one dimension) to how does the average homeowner reduce BOTH consumption and bills. Don't forget that the cheapest unit of electricity is the one you don't use.

Happy reading.

p.s. Answer for all - If a customer gets a smart meter installed and moves to another provider it becomes a 'dumb meter' again. Data comes from the energy provider having collected it using the mobile network.

A customer could, and yes a few may benefit from knowing how much electricity they are using and when, and I',m sure the odd few will gobble up any analysis provided and may even modify their consumption accordingly, but with unit prices at leat as high and sometimes well over 100% higher than available elsewhere, (and thats without even discussing the standing charge made) that appears a high price for an average user to pay for such information that may or may not be useful and/or the avoidance of making possibly one, perhaps two free phone calls per year.

Of course, as you say "Don't forget that the cheapest unit of electricity is the one you don't use.", but I don't see why anyone would necessarily choses not to use the electricity by using First Utility rather than any other supplier - well not until they receive the huge bill then they might reduce consumption! I think the service is more to do with using power during the cheaper periods rather than when the customer actually otherwise would, rather than not using the power at all. But as I pointed out earlier, the cheaper periods with First Utility at least as high as the comparable standard costs with ebico.

I guess next you'll be selling the service on the basis a unit saved with First Utility could save you as much as 17.33p whilst a unit saved with ebico would only save 11.33p :rolleyes:

WestonDave

It certainly doesn't work for me and I know I'm not on the cheapest tarriff. At absolute best I could save £16 a year on this and that assumes that we never do things outside the criteria I set (i.e. washing machine and dishwasher always on overnight, and absolutely nothing running in the peak slot, and getting up work time to shower at the weekends). The reality is that things will shift slots and the savings meagre as they are will be lost. Also I will not be sitting in the silent dark with no cup of tea between 4 and 8 so some electricity will inevitably be used in the peak slot which again isn't allowed for in the above "savings" I don't doubt the benefits of smart meters but no-one should pay a premium to get one.

The one really weird quirk is that the timeslots are quoted in GMT - so in summer my 6am BST shower is in a cheaper timeslot (i.e. because its 5am GMT) than in winter! If that doesn't hold and the time moves with the clock change then all the "savings" for me would be wiped out and with the obvious flaws in my assumptions it would not even be worth considering.

BusinessEnergyBroker

The way that First Utility have set themselves up is fantastic and this really is the future of the utility industry. It will eventually lead to reduction in prices as supplier administration costs wil be drastically reduced and that can be passed on to customers.

This being said we have yet to find a business customer take on any offer presented to them via us with the First Utility product. When you break down the annual costs and compare them against other suppliers within the market they are always one of the most expensive.

When you give a customer the option of paying several hundred (or thousand) pounds less with another supplier they will take that offer 999 times out of 1000. Yes it may mean that you may need to keep a closer eye on the account with the other supplier and check your own meter readings but at the end of the day money talks.

First Utility need to be more competitive on price if they want to succeed in a shark infested market.

mhendo

I can appreciate a marginal mark-up for the initial costs, perhaps involved with installation etc, but based on 50% night time usage (I'm already on Economy 7), First:Utility is almost 50% more expensive!
First:Utility E7 = £1022
Eon ElecExtraSaver v5 E7 = £694

I don't think the offering justifies the cost.

1carminestocky

It's very rarely the pioneers who make any money...