Sacked - Now Helpless

ameratsu

If references aren't going to be a problem, she can sign up with any number of agencies to get temporary work while she looks for permanent work.
Lots of agencies are now recruiting for the xmas busy period.
She also has right of appeal against the dismissal - but would she really want to work there again after what's happened?
I imagine you would be entitled to working tax credits - have you checked on entitledto.co.uk to see?

Kimitatsu

simon4amiee wrote: »

No idea was just told a few mins ago, will look at her letter when she gets it, but there were circumstances around it which led to her refusing.

We have been trying for a baby for 3-4 years now and had 3 miscarriages, as a result we were both sent for extensive tests which were due a week or 2 ago, we then got a letter saying it had been put back till october. As a result in her lunch break the wife rang the hospital but was passed from pillar to post, thus going ten mins into her working time. She was ordered into an office and given a verbal warning, she had no documentation of this. As such i looked at her greivance procedure and mentioned the above, they then withdrew the verbal warning.

However because she had just been told off, and being in the frame of mind that we are desperate to get our results on the tests she snapped and refused to do as her supervisor who had just given her a verbal and refused to carry out a task, stating she was a team player and needed to help tidy one area before moving to the next, thus the misconduct charge.

I will always stick by my wife we have had it hard for 3 years and what doesnt kill us makes us stronger, its just i dont see how she could appeal to get her job back, or to get a current job in todays economical climate especially as she was sacked!

Woah there fella!

Calm down and take a deep breath first of all. This has all been a BIG shock today and it is not as bad as it all looks.

Firstly is there anyone in her work place who is aware of the problems you have been having? Any employer worth their salt wants to keep their workforce and there are clearly mitigating circumstances here. As a manager I would not have sacked someone for the situation that you have just explained but I may well have sent them home for the afternoon as they were patently under a lot of stress and needed some time to gather themsleves.

I would also question the fact that she was sacked for GM on the basis of snapping at a manager that seems like a omplete over reaction to me. Does she have any other warnings at all or is there any history of antagonism with this manager? Any history of her being late on a regular basis? It seems a little odd to me that they are sackng her but telling her they will give her a good reference. If there is a union rep there I would talk to them or give ACAS a call.

As for the rest of your marriage and mortgage etc, from what you have said that you have been through this is a hurdle but you will both get over it. As has been said your wife can claim contributions based JSA, you may be entitled to tax credits and other means tested benefits such as council tax benefit and housing benefit if you rent your home.

If references are no problem then take this as an oportunity to get a different job, I notice that you live in Beverley, there are lots of jobs in Hull which are being advertised at the moment, you could have a look on the thisishull website under the jobs sector just to see what is going at the moment. I am sure that your wife will have another job fairly quickly!

All you can do at the moment is not panic and support your wife through this blip - she is bound to be feeling upset and has had her confidence knocked.

simon4amiee

Thanks for all the kind support, i will look down a nu,ber of avenes mentioned!

mymatebob

Kimitatsu makes a number of good points.

Take things one stage at a time and try to keep the work and the IVF issues apart as far as possible.

Ask - why was she sacked?
How was she sacked?
Was this reasonable?
Did the company follow their own procedures?
Have you been given the right of appeal?
Do you want to appeal?
Does she want the job back?

The ACAS site is very useful

Keep breathing and talk together

ohreally

She has a statutory right of appeal...use it, a disciplinary outcome must be fair, reasonable and proportionate. Were mitigating circumstances taken into account - doesn't appear to be.

Compose yourselves then consider then decide how to react.

simon4amiee

Oh yes i do take care in how I do things, I use this site the consumer action group site and the business forums site, just to get many differing opinions of how to best deal with any given situation. Obviously bit shocked today, but i wanted really to go home to the wife with something positive to say.

Ragdolly38

Hi this is my first post but I feel you should know, that your wife is entitled to all the evidence against her,at least 3 days before she goes into a disciplinary hearing she can also take a work collegue in with her or a union rep. This is employment law. I would contact an employment law specialist though if I were you, good luck and don't despair I'm still living a year after I had something similar done to me. :happylove

Buttercup.x

Ragdolly38 wrote: »

Hi this is my first post but I feel you should know, that your wife is entitled to all the evidence against her,at least 3 days before she goes into a disciplinary hearing she can also take a work collegue in with her or a union rep. This is employment law.

Oops i thanked you by accident lol never mind this is true she is entitled to evidence. also a rep to take notes on her behalf. she really should appeal! does she have a clean record otherwise?

simon4amiee

Over 3 years, I have only till tomorrow to appeal; there are a number of issues I think having read through the procedures and letters.

They mention recent disciplinary meeting where she had a verbal warning for using a phone in works time, however she received no such letter in writing stating she had had a verbal warning, she put in a grievance and the verbal was overturned due to the circumstances.

They mention past insubordination which happed in July 2006, which I'm sure she was on a year final warning, this time came and went yet was still mentioned.

She failed in the original meeting to out her point accords, she isn’t the brightest of sparks bless her, so I am writing an appeal based on the circumstances surrounding her dismissal.

Firstly her frame of mind at the time, we had been waiting 3-4 months for test results back from the doctors, and on Monday 11th August we received a letter saying the appointment was now put back to late October, as we have had 3 pregnancies and 3 miscarriages, we both had intensive testing done on our bloods/chromosomes etc, and we were very keen to know if anything was abnormal. My wife rang the hospital during her lunch break (12.30-1.00pm) on 11th August 2008, due to being passed to person to person (she had it on loud speaker with witnesses), the phone call went 10 mins into her working hours (1.10pm). At 1.11pm she was called into an office on told she was going to be given an official verbal warning for using her phone in work time and coming back from lunch late, my wife tried to explain but fell on deaf ears (no written confirmation of the verbal warning was ever received).

As a result at 1.20pm on resumption of her work she was then ordered to another part of the production line by her supervisor who had just given her the verbal. My wife argued that as line leader it was her job to help other to clear their area before moving on, the supervisor asked her again to stop what she was doing and move to another part of the production line which my wife refused.

the next day 12th August 2008, my wife sent a letter of grievance into the company regarding the verbal warning, explaining her reasons, and the fact it has never happened before in 3-4 years, and that any time lost she would be more than willing to make up.

On Monday 18th August she received a letter asking her to attend a grievance appeal meeting on Thursday 21st August @ 10.30am, to which she attended. The meeting I told went well and the Verbal Warning was rescinded due to the circumstances, and she was just told that using a phone in works time is a health and safety issue and she should restrict her time on it to her breaks.

Also on Monday 18th August 2008, she received another letter which was 'Notice of disciplinary Meeting, which said she had to attend on Thursday 21stAugust @ 4.00pm stating 'As you will be aware from our discussion on 18 August 2008 it is alleged that you refused to carry out reasonable management instructions which is viewed by the Company to be Gross Misconduct. As this is considered a gross misconduct offence and if found to be so at your disciplinary hearing it could result in dismissal. As this is a formal disciplinary meeting, you may be accompanied by a work colleague or a Trade Union Official. To assist you prepare for the meeting, I enclose a copy of the Company's Disciplinary Procedure'

During this time my wife was not suspended and continued to work, on 21st August 2008, she attended the meeting with a witness, she admitted and accepted she refused to carry out a supervisors orders, but didn’t really get across why she did so due to her angry and upset frame of mind at the time. She was told verbally she would get a reply the following day.

On 22nd August she was then told they hadn’t come to a decision and that she would have to waiting until after the bank holiday Tuesday 26th August 2008.

On Tuesday 26th August 2008, she received her answer and the letter stating the following.

'Further to the Disciplinary hearing on Thursday 21 august 2008 which was attended by you, myself in my capacity as production manager, Kay Briggs minute taker - (who happens to be her supervisor in question), I am writing to regrettably confirm your summary dismissal from the company.

The purpose of the above hearing was to give you an opportunity to provide a satisfactory explanation form the following area of misconduct which the Company considered to be the gravest and utmost severity.

- Serious insubordination
- Failure to carry out reasonable management instructions

At the hearing you said that you failed to carry out the instruction, that was asked of you several times, which was to move to another filling line to assist in the preparation of an urgent order, on the grounds that you wished to remain on the line and clear the mess that had been made. You have confirmed during the meeting that you are ware that such action could be construed as Gross misconduct.

After careful consideration I find your explanation wholly unacceptable because irrespective of the duties you felt you needed to perform, there was a much more pressing need to attend the urgent production of the Ready Mixed Adhesive that your supervisor had been asked to prepare. Without your assistance this order there was a potential for it to be delayed. It is up to the supervisor to prioritize the production cycle not you.

Your failure to Co-operate, and indeed the manner of your refusal, caused inconvenience and other, less able staff then had to be used instead. With you previous experience of failing to acknowledge and undertake instruction that led to disciplinary action being taken against you, would have suggested that you disobeyed these instructions knowing that it could lead to further disciplinary action. With your previous history of insubordination as stated above I am unconvinced that similar issues will not reoccur in the future.

Furthermore, I find you actions amount to gross misconduct. As we have had a similar but unrelated incident within the company recently that led to dismissal we have to remain consistent and as a consequence. Therefore, I have no alternative but to summarily dismiss you from the company. This means that you are not entitled to notice or pay in lieu of notice.

Your date of dismissal is, therefore 26th August 2008. Your P45 and any monies owing to you including holiday pay and outstanding wages will be forwarded to your home address.

Finally you have the right to appeal against you Dismissal. If you wish to exercise this right, you should write to XXXXXXX, Managing Director, within 3 working days stating your reasons for such an appeal.

mymatebob

Sounds as if they followed their procedures then

You should still appeal and cite the personal pressure she was under, although as they say in the letter they have to have a consistent policy, which is quite right.

They mention the previous disciplinary and if this is on her record then it doesn't just disappear over time.

Sorry can't be more helpful at he moment but good luck anyway.