Help with Puppy!!

butterflylady

I am in desperate need of help with my puppy!!!

I have had her since the middle of June so almost 8 weeks. When she first came she was ok, weeing but not to bad. Well its just gone from ok to awful!!!

She now wee's and poo's in my kitchen!! We're not just saying once in a while, it everyday!! Not just once a day the other day she did it 9 times thats pooing!!!!!! She is let out regularly, does somethin outside but then does more in the kitchen!!

Example, I let her out at 11:30pm last night she had a wee and a poo. My OH got up to go to work at 3:30 to come down to wee and poo!!! Now I'm staying up later to let her out and my OH is getting up earlier but still no success. I then got up before 7am to let her out, gave her breakfast at about 8.30am and just gone into the kitchen and she has pooed again 9:20ish!!!!!

She is out for long periods when I make breakfast and then clearing it up but still no success!!!

I know people say to watch the dog for signs but because of how she is I don't dare let her in the lounge, I have a 14mth old DS and I know she will just go with no warning!!!

Also she eats her poo and any other poo she finds in the garden so I don't want her licking anyone or anything for fear of what she could pass on!!!!

In addition to this my kitchen stinks of wee, I have removed and thrown away all of my kick boards but the smell still lingers and I have no idea how to get rid of this!! Any suggestions..........


It is now gettin to the stage where I am having to seriously consider gettting rid of her as she has already wrecked a carpet which I can;t afford to replace, in addition to this if I can't get rid of the smell I will have to get new kitchen cabinets as I can't bear to eat anything that comes out of the kitchen or cook in there!!!!

*Katie*_3

Puppies don't learn instantly I'm afraid, they have to be taught and the key to that is consistency.

The text below is taken from here http://www.thekennelclub.org.uk/item/458

Puppy Toilet Training
Toilet training should be quite a simple process, as long as you take the time and trouble to get into a good routine.
Initially, you will have to build your routine around your puppy’s needs, and these are reliably predictable when they are very young.
Puppies need to urinate immediately after waking up, so you need to be there to take your puppy straight into the garden without any delay.
Eating its meal stimulates its digestive system, and puppies normally urinate within fifteen minutes of eating, and defecate within half an hour of eating (although this might vary slightly with each individual).
Puppies have very poor bladder control, and need to urinate at least every hour or two. They can urinate spontaneously when they get excited, so take your puppy out frequently if it has been active, playing or exploring.
You may find it useful to keep a record of when your puppy eats sleeps, urinates and defecates. A simple diary list will do.
Repeat cue words like ‘wee wees’ and ‘poo poos’ or ‘be busy’ and ‘be clean’ while the puppy is actually urinating or defecating. Use different words for each action so that you will be able to prompt the puppy later on.
Always go with your puppy into the garden so you are there to reward and attach the cue words to the successful actions!
Fortunately, puppies are creatures of habit, so as long as you introduce the garden to your puppy as its toilet area early on, you should be able to avoid most of the common pitfalls.
Toilet training errors
Unfortunately there are many reasons why ‘toilet training’ might not go as smoothly as it could, so make sure you do not make any of the following mistakes...

• Over-feeding.
• Feeding an unsuitable diet or giving a variety of foods.
• Not feeding at regular times.
• Feeding at the wrong times (which could cause overnight defecation).
• Punishing the puppy for its indoor accidents (which can make it scared of toileting in front of you – even outside).
• Feeding salty foods (e.g. stock from cubes) which makes them drink more.
• Using ammonia based cleaning compounds (which smell similar to urine).
• Expecting the puppy to tell you when it needs to go out; this is unrealistic, so it is better to take them out at regular intervals.
• Leaving the back door open for the puppy to come and go as it pleases (a puppy will think that the garden is an adventure playground, rather than a toilet area. Also, what is a puppy meant to do when the weather gets cold, and it is faced with a closed back door?).
• Leaving the puppy on its own too long, so that it is forced to go indoors (which sets a bad precedent, or even a habit of going indoors).
• Mistakenly associating the words ‘good girl’ or ‘good boy’ when they toilet, as opposed to the specific cue words. Guess what could happen the next time you praise your dog?
• Access to rugs or carpet (which are nice and absorbent – just like grass).
• Laziness on your part, resulting in more wees indoors than outdoors.
• Leaving the puppy alone in the garden, so you are not there to reward it for going outdoors… how is it meant to learn that it is more popular and advantageous going outdoors, if you are not there to show your approval?
• Submissive or excited urination on greeting (if this occurs, take your puppy outside before you greet it and tone down your greeting so it is less exciting or overwhelming).
• It is unfair to expect your puppy to go right through the night when it is very young.
• Sleeping the puppy in a crate or puppy pen can help with house training but you should let it out in the garden to relieve itself during the night.

http://www.thekennelclub.org.uk/item/458

foreign_correspondent

butterflylady wrote: »

It is now gettin to the stage where I am having to seriously consider gettting rid of her as she has already wrecked a carpet which I can;t afford to replace, in addition to this if I can't get rid of the smell I will have to get new kitchen cabinets as I can't bear to eat anything that comes out of the kitchen or cook in there!!!!

What a shame you decided to get a puppy in the first place. They are a LOT of work, especailly with a small child too. I hope all the people posting 'where can i buy a puppy' or 'I must have a puppy as an older dog would not be suitable with my kids' read this first.

There have been so many threads on here from people struggling with toilet training, chewing, niping etc from puppies recently, but still people never seem to see the benefits of taking on an older (house trained) rescue dog (had mine ten months, not one wee or poo in the house, nothing chewed, trustworthy with kids, no problems at all!) My mums rescue dog was about ten months old and clearly housetrained - one accident on first day, has been clean in the house ever since.

Dont get a pup if you cannot cope with the almost inevitable consequences. I suggest at this stage you either join a dog forum and get some good advice, read some books, or go to puppy training classes or hire a trainer and find out how to house train your pup properly before you 'get rid'. Either way you have a lot of work to do, and it is your responsibility to the dog to do a good job so she does not end up homeless.

It is going to be harder now, as you have unwittingly let her get into bad habits, but it can be done.

You need to go rght back to basics, taking her out every 30 mins or so and staying with her, then lots of praise ad a treat every time she wees or poos outside.

Do not just put her outside unsupervised as this isnt teaching her anything, but you are enabling her to eat poo.

cheepskate_2

butterflylady wrote: »

I know people say to watch the dog for signs but because of how she is I don't dare let her in the lounge, I have a 14mth old DS and I know she will just go with no warning!!!


!

I would say " here lies the problem, how can you keep an eye on the pup to train yourself when he needs to go , if you are not in the same room.
Maybe an idea would be to move yourself and DS into the same room i.e the kitchen and then you can watch the pup, clean the floor easily if it makes a mess and also keep an eye on DS. Shouldn't take long this way to housetrain.

Also no use just letting the pup out the back, it doesn't learn it anything, you need to be there to catch it toileting outside so you can praise it.

Hope you get it sorted without resorting to giving the pup away.

butterflylady

Thanks for all the so helpful comments telling me we have done it all wrong!!

So you know if one of us goes outside with her she just wants to play and does not pee or poo!!! We can be out there for over an hour with her and she will do nothing!!! If we let her out on her own she will go and relatively quickly!!!

FC we tried to get a resuce dog, however the answer was you can't have one with a child under 3!! OR at the one place which would allow it just staff's or rottie's which was just not going to happen!!!!

Cheepskate what a wonderful suggestion, move my DS and I into the kitchen, that way when she goes with no warning I run the risk of my DS covered in it!! So Glad you bothered to read the whole of the post, where I state that she eats poo, not just her own but any she can find, so fox and cat in my backgarden.

I'm guessing your not a parent as there is no way a responsible parent would want there child licked by a dog that eats poo.

OR did you miss all the adverts which are aimed at making dog owners pick up poo where it states that kids can go blind due to the bugs in the poo!!!!

foreign_correspondent

butterflylady wrote: »

Thanks for all the so helpful comments telling me we have done it all wrong!!
No, you have clearly done it all right, thats why the pup is not house trained. - look, if what you are doing isnt working you need to do something different.

So you know if one of us goes outside with her she just wants to play and does not pee or poo!!! We can be out there for over an hour with her and she will do nothing!!! If we let her out on her own she will go and relatively quickly!!! you need to put the time in to get the results and she needs to learn that 'going' outside us a good thing. Do not play with her till after she has 'gone' - use the play as a reward

FC we tried to get a resuce dog, however the answer was you can't have one with a child under 3!! probably not a bad idea as training a dog and looking after a baby are two difficult, time consuming jobs. Did you not think of waiting till the child was a bit older? OR at the one place which would allow it just staff's or rottie's which was just not going to happen!!!! well, thats your choice, but often staffs are fabulous with kids.

Cheepskate what a wonderful suggestion, move my DS and I into the kitchen, that way when she goes with no warning I run the risk of my DS covered in it!! well, what you are doing now isnt working, so perhaps you do need to try something different - have you got any better ideas? So Glad you bothered to read the whole of the post, where I state that she eats poo, not just her own but any she can find, so fox and cat in my backgarden.

I'm guessing your not a parent as there is no way a responsible parent would want there child licked by a dog that eats poo.
Dogs will always eat things they find and scavenge (dead frogs, old sandwiches, bits of kebab, their own and other animals poo, and will also inevitably try and lick people - either stop her eating nasties by supervising her trips into the garden, or dont let her lick your child. Surely you would be supervsing the dog and the child all the time they are together?

OR did you miss all the adverts which are aimed at making dog owners pick up poo where it states that kids can go blind due to the bugs in the poo!!!!

this is caused by worm eggs, so keeping your dog wormed may help reduce the risk, but really the answer is supervision.

It is not the dogs fault it isnt housetrained yet, it clearly does not understand what is expected of it. Also you say it had pood in the kitchen 50 minutes after its breakfast - I think it did well to wait that long, should have been outside with you soon after breakfast till it had gone, and lots of praise.


Katie's post contains some excellent advice, why not try to put this into practice and see how you do instead of giving us a load of reasons why you cannot change anything - what do you want us to say, that it is the dogs fault and that you cant do anything about other than what you are already doing so get rid??

If you work hard at it the dog should be toilet trained in a week or two, but you really need to put the time and enthusiasm in to get the results. It does seem to be going quite frequently though - what sort of food is it on and what sort of dog is it?

Paparika

The only suggestion i can make which did work for me and quite quickly too although some feel its cruel.

Cage training, the cage you can buy in a pet shop mine cost £25.00 and usual £35 and upwards in pets at home,

it also doubles up as the transport cage too for the boot of the car, as lil perry still gets car sick, but contained its easier to clear up, So the cage is perfect for his travel needs.

For a whole 2 weeks day and night i kept him in his cage and he only came out for walkies and food, the rest of the time (apart from cuddles on the sofa) he stayed in the cage, i made sure his bedding covered all the bottom so there was no free space to mess, as dogs don't like to mess on their bed (they do if they are desperate)
Its his personal space that he knows he is safe in. I left him 4 hours max during the day, and 8 hours at night, this also trains their bladders to hold more.

It did work for us, but may not work for others if they don't like this type of training, and yes he's had ago at my living room carpet that does need replacing but i can't afford yet, but will do when he's a lil older.

Your kitchen may smell of wee, but get something like zoflora and wash down everything, (59p). Things will get better honest.

lots of praise and treats when outside doing what pup needs to do, everytime my pup wee's and poops outside he automatically looks at me to say, well come on where's my treat.

MrsTinks

butterflylady wrote: »

Thanks for all the so helpful comments telling me we have done it all wrong!!
Well in fairness you have been doing it wrong... The comments have not been horrible but trying to help you see what you aren't doing right to help fix the problem. Don't have a go because you don't like the fact!

So you know if one of us goes outside with her she just wants to play and does not pee or poo!!! We can be out there for over an hour with her and she will do nothing!!! If we let her out on her own she will go and relatively quickly!!!
You don't think this is because she's afraid to defacate infront of you? Have either of you ever told her off for poo-ing or wee-ing indoors what might have caused this?

FC we tried to get a resuce dog, however the answer was you can't have one with a child under 3!! OR at the one place which would allow it just staff's or rottie's which was just not going to happen!!!!
There is a reason for those policies... and for the record then both rotties and staffs are excellent family dogs. My DH grew up with a pack of rotties as his aunt bred them, he was usually found draped across the biggest male infront of the fire fast asleep from a very young age... Punish the deed, not the breed.

Cheepskate what a wonderful suggestion, move my DS and I into the kitchen, that way when she goes with no warning I run the risk of my DS covered in it!! So Glad you bothered to read the whole of the post, where I state that she eats poo, not just her own but any she can find, so fox and cat in my backgarden.
I don't see a problem with this? Why can't you either keep your DS in a chair, baby crate thingy or even get a crate for the puppy? No-one is suggesting you drop the child in poo here - we're trying to give you different suggestions to help you solve a problem!
Poo eating btw is normal if somewhat gross... If you don't like it you can mussel (sp?) the dog when walking her and keep cleaning ASAP when at home to stop it eating it. Some dogs grow out of it, others never do, with some it's bad diet... If you don't like it... maybe a dog isn't for you...

I'm guessing your not a parent as there is no way a responsible parent would want there child licked by a dog that eats poo.
See above...

OR did you miss all the adverts which are aimed at making dog owners pick up poo where it states that kids can go blind due to the bugs in the poo!!!!
And you can catch loads of stuff from other kids too - including measles which can in extreem cases kill... And you can't control what the kids touch and what those who touched it before them touched... Minimise the risk, just don't believe you can eliminate it totally...

Dog training is hard work - there is no question about it. I've never believed in people getting puppies when they have young children - it's simply too much hard work!
If you aren't willing to put in the MANY hours (and reading your description of the problem it WILL be a LOT of hours...) training the puppy and being very very patient then please... find it a new home that is willing to put that work in. And please do it soon because the longer you leave it the harder it will be for someone to rectify the problem when it's rehomed...

When your DS is older - like 6 or 7 then get an older dog. There a loads of dogs that have lived with kids and through no fault of their own need a new home - like family splitting etc. You could have a trained and calm dog and not have any of these problems.

xxlaurissaxx

If you go outside with your dog and they run up wanting to play, just dont make eye contact, speak or touch the dog (act like its not there) or if you have a window near the garden let the dog out and watch from the window then once you see them going to do the toilet walk to the door and once they are finished praise them with touch and speech. You dont need to give them treats as they will expect this more everytime they do something right.
xx

supermezzo

How old is the puppy? If you say you've had her 8 weeks, did you get her at 8 weeks therefore making her 4 months old now? She is going to have accidents still occasionally tbh.
Are you treating the dog when it comes back in or outside? It needs to be outside IMHO when they are little or else they either stop halfway through to come in for the treat or they get very mixed up and end up 'going' in the kitchen for the treat, as this is where they associate the good part of 'going'. And I would suggest that you use the garden for now as simply somewhere for the dog to 'go', rather than somewhere to play (if only for a few days) so that she learns why she's out there. Go out with her every half hour, issue whichever command you want to use, if she goes then treat her outside then bring her in again. If she doesn't go after a few mins or so then bring her back in and try again later. If she has an accident ignore it. But it sounds as though the garden is a really good adventure to her at the moment so why would she waste time 'going'?
She does seem to be pooing a lot, even for a puppy. Have you had her checked for worms as this makes them very 'loose' and unpredictable as to where they go and how often. If it's not worms, then maybe your vet can suggest a different food type - what is she eating at the moment and how much? Again, over-feeding or the wrong type of food can have a rather 'cleansing' effect on their insides.

There are entirely practical suggestions and although I concur with a lot of the other posters on their views about needing to spend time with a puppy, I can see no point me banging on about it too. BUT I will say that I suspect that a lot of the problem is that you a) stopped the toilet training too soon when she got it right the first few times and that b) someone has either told her off or been cross (even if indirectly) when they have found a mess and that from that she has learnt that by going inside, she gets a reaction from someone even if it's a bad one, because any attention from a puppies point of view is better than being ignored. Puppies need every bit as much time and attention as babies/toddlers do and that is incredible demanding and difficult to do - but it needs to be done if you want this dog to feel safe and secure within your family unit and be a part of the 'pack', which she won't do if she is always shut in the kitchen without any positive interaction and time for 'her'.

Sammy_Girl

Hi Butterflylady,

It seems to me that you clearly want to help your pup, as that is why you are posting here. Previous replies have offered very good advice that needs to be followed.

The most important bit that I can offer, is to put yourself in your puppy's shoes (or paws?). She is still a very young puppy and has no idea what to do unless you tell her. When she does something right (goes to the loo outside) praise her (give her a treat, throw a ball, jump up and down, shout off the rooftops, anything that grabs her attention and lets her know how happy you are). If she does something wrong (goes to the loo inside), ignore her (no eye contact, no cuddles, no words). She will want your positive attention and so will learn to do things shich encourage a positive reaction. This may seem over the top, but it does work. That is how I toilet trained my dog when he was a pup. He is an attention seeker - and when he did something right I gave him loads of attention, and when he did something wrong, I ignored him.

Please remember, that every reaction (good or bad) from you has to be done straightaway (within 10 seconds of the action occuring) otherwise the puppy won't connect the action and the reaction.

It does require a lot of time and patience in the early stages and accidents do happen, but the dog will catch on, and it will be so worth it in the long run. My dog stopped going to the toilet inside the home when he was 4-5 months old.

Also, my dog used to eat his poo. Gross I know, but the dog doesn't know any different unless he's taught. I was told that they learn from their mummy, as their mummy would eat up the puppies poo so there was no mess when they were tiny little pups. So in a way, she think's she's helping you. When she starts to do it, just clear it up yourself with a poop bag whilst ignoring her and she'll soon get the message.

You'll always find someone in a worse situation than you. My dog used to poo behind the sofa :eek: That was never a nice situation!!! But once they're all fully trained, you can look back at these memories and smile

Please persevere, it's so sad to hear of pups starting off in rescue centres through no fault of their own. Before you know it, you'll have a dog peeing in the back garden and wondering how you can get him to not pee up the washing line (that's my current problem )

S x