Has anyone sued a Seller and or Surveyor?

hypno06

Hi there - 8 years ago we bought a house after a full structural survey, The only thing it picked up that was adverse was a "bit of damp around the shower". Given that the house was 80 years old, this was not a problem so we went ahead.

3 weeks after moving in, a catalogue of structural (and we are talking serious serious issues) problems began to be discovered. In the end we had to rebuild every room bar one......we lived, ate and slept (2 adults, 2 children under 6) in that one room for 6 months while the builders were in. We amassed a serious amount of debt (that we are still paying) due to the rebuild.

Our house insurance included legal cover......they sent their structural engineer round and wrote their report. Their suggestion was initially to get back the original surveyor to give him the opportunity to put things right. We did this and as he walked round the property again, he admitted that he had not done a proper job.

As he went to leave, though, he pointed out that on getting back to the office he would be denying any wrongdoing!!!!!!!

So, we sued......it went on for a while......my husband had a breakdown over the whole horrific experience.....and we got the grand sum of £4,000 back from them as a "gesture of goodwill".

They still managed to wheedle their way out of it, and I would NEVER pay for a full structural report again - not worth the paper it is written on. From now on I will have a basic report for the mortgage and will get a builder to come and look for any potential problems.

Good luck, whatever you choose to do, but if you do sue, be prepared for disappointment.

bubblesmoney

hypno06 wrote: »

Hi there - 8 years ago we bought a house after a full structural survey, The only thing it picked up that was adverse was a "bit of damp around the shower". Given that the house was 80 years old, this was not a problem so we went ahead.

3 weeks after moving in, a catalogue of structural (and we are talking serious serious issues) problems began to be discovered. In the end we had to rebuild every room bar one......we lived, ate and slept (2 adults, 2 children under 6) in that one room for 6 months while the builders were in. We amassed a serious amount of debt (that we are still paying) due to the rebuild.

Our house insurance included legal cover......they sent their structural engineer round and wrote their report. Their suggestion was initially to get back the original surveyor to give him the opportunity to put things right. We did this and as he walked round the property again, he admitted that he had not done a proper job.

As he went to leave, though, he pointed out that on getting back to the office he would be denying any wrongdoing!!!!!!!

So, we sued......it went on for a while......my husband had a breakdown over the whole horrific experience.....and we got the grand sum of £4,000 back from them as a "gesture of goodwill".

They still managed to wheedle their way out of it, and I would NEVER pay for a full structural report again - not worth the paper it is written on. From now on I will have a basic report for the mortgage and will get a builder to come and look for any potential problems.

Good luck, whatever you choose to do, but if you do sue, be prepared for disappointment.

looks like u made an out of court settlement since u got a gesture of goodwill payment. why didnt u actually sue them for damages due to their incompetent report. looks like u did sue them and later made the out of court settlement for a lot less than the damages to u. did u use a solicitor specialising in malpractice claims for the case against the surveyor or atleast a firm specialising in the building industry cases

regarding the OP in this thread. even if the OP has valid claims, the delays in claiming might cause problems. how do u actually prove that the fishes didnt disappear after the buyer completed on the sale. how do u prove the windows didnt break after the purchase, same for boiler etc unless they have access to old gas installation checks etc which says boiler faulty or the boiler man who said was faulty previous year is willing to give sworn statements etc. will need proper independent solicitor advise from someone specialising in building industry malpractice claims

vivatifosi

I sued my surveyor through small claims court for a poor survey on my house. We noticed problems from the day after we moved in the house and made them aware of them straight away. It took over a year and lots of letters but eventually they settled out of court.

When you sue a surveyor, if you win you do not get back the value of replacing the faulty items, only the estimated "diminution in value" over the price paid for the house. In my case this worked out at 35-40% of the cost of having the work done. This is a pretty standard percentage, though there are some cases that fall outside of that range as the difference in value and the cost of repair are two different measures.

Throughout my case I used Which Legal, a part of the Consumers Association, through whom you can get legal cheap legal support. It requires a lot of legwork (I still had to write my own letters etc but it was clear I had legal support). I also had to pay for (and wasn't reimbursed for) a second survey to show the faults in the first. I settled when I was offered the value of the diminution because I knew if I went to court that my award was unlikely to be much higher (if at all) and that way the risk was removed.

Incidentally, faulty windows were part of my claim. However although the previous owner had left some items in a state (much as had happened with your appliances), these were not. It would have been unreasonable for the surveyor to have picked up on these and per Caveat Emptor it wasn't worth going after the vendors.

I wish you luck if you do pursue this, but even if you win, be aware that your award is likely to be less than you would like it to be. Sorry...

hypno06

bubblesmoney wrote: »

looks like u made an out of court settlement since u got a gesture of goodwill payment. why didnt u actually sue them for damages due to their incompetent report. looks like u did sue them and later made the out of court settlement for a lot less than the damages to u. did u use a solicitor specialising in malpractice claims for the case against the surveyor or atleast a firm specialising in the building industry cases

Yes, we did settle out of court, on the advice of our solicitor. The solicitor was appointed by our buildings insurance company.

The thing was, at the time it drove OH to a breakdown, and with 2 small children and working full time and living in a building site, the additional stress of the court case was just too much for me to deal with.......I couldn't afford to fall apart too.....so we decided to try and draw a line and move on.

Obviously, we are still moving on!! But hey, what is done is done.....if I had the strength of will then, that I have now, I would have done differently.....but of course it is easy to look back and say that. At the time you just do what is right at that time, rightly or wrongly.

At least I know that I can hold my head up high over the whole thing.....which is more than either the surveyor or the vendor can do. I used to be very bitter towards both......now I almost feel sorry for them for having to reduce themselves to that level.

vivatifosi

hypno06 wrote: »

The thing was, at the time it drove OH to a breakdown, and with 2 small children and working full time and living in a building site, the additional stress of the court case was just too much for me to deal with.......I couldn't afford to fall apart too.....so we decided to try and draw a line and move on.

Hypno that sucks... Glad to hear you came out the other side. I found the whole thing extremely stressful too and I don't think anyone should underestimate the stress of making a claim against a surveyor because even though you know you are in the right it is so hard to make a claim against one.

The old owners on the other hand... financial reward isn't their comeuppance, its the damage you can do to their reputation by telling their former friends and neighbours what they were really like. Not by directly slating them of course. In my case I just mentioned in passing when the guy came round to fix them that none of the taps worked and I had got a plumber in to change them. Which of course had the desired effect: gossip (not from me) means that neighbours all now know former residents were dirty scumbags, but I didn't need to say that . Oh, and if original owners come back and challenge me (which they won't), I've got the survey to prove it. Revenge is sweet....

bubblesmoney

hypno06 wrote: »

Yes, we did settle out of court, on the advice of our solicitor. The solicitor was appointed by our buildings insurance company.

The thing was, at the time it drove OH to a breakdown, and with 2 small children and working full time and living in a building site, the additional stress of the court case was just too much for me to deal with.......I couldn't afford to fall apart too.....so we decided to try and draw a line and move on.

Obviously, we are still moving on!! But hey, what is done is done.....if I had the strength of will then, that I have now, I would have done differently.....but of course it is easy to look back and say that. At the time you just do what is right at that time, rightly or wrongly.

At least I know that I can hold my head up high over the whole thing.....which is more than either the surveyor or the vendor can do. I used to be very bitter towards both......now I almost feel sorry for them for having to reduce themselves to that level.

good u moved on. probably i would have done the same in similar situations. sometimes it is better to cut ones losses and move on rather than fight for a long time and face the stress of it.

been there and done similar things in past when i cut my losses and moved on. when i was outside the uk tenants caused a lot of damage (structural) to our house. (we had to move because of career moves. had to cut our losses and spend ourself and sell the place after repairs as we didnt have the time for travelling elsewhere for court cases etc.

another time fought a consumer court case which dragged on for 5y!!! spent on lawyer and won. but u know what, that was just on paper. had bought a computer made to order but seller (company) had seller billed for all the good stuff and put substandard or lower specs stuff inside. all verified in court, but the judge in his 'wisdom' instead of money back with interest, made a very wise decision of ordering the company to do the needed repairs instead!!! this when we didnt get to use a computer for 5y as it was evidence and in 5y the computer industry moves leaps and bounds and 5y old stuff becomes obsolete. so in effect the parts werent available and if i had accepted the terms of the order i would have had to pay more money to the chap who cheated us for giving us upgraded parts when the delays were no fault of mine. initially self represented case including drafting of all papers, and attended court few times, they would call out case, the opposite party lawyer would be seated near judges and would say something i couldnt hear as i would be seated in public area and before i could even run forward to hear the rest of it, the 3 person panel would blurt out adjourned even before i opened my mouth, at other times i would never get the next hearing date notice mysteriously and then when i turned up in consumer court as to what was happening with our case i would be told adjourned again as either we didnt turn up (we werent informed in the 1st place) or the other party didnt turn up so adjourned. i paid the lawyers some money but booted them as wanted to self represent because the junior bum sent to represent me was differnt many times and wouldnt have bothered toi read up full papers and would have turned up just to ask for adjournment. then the court premises got shifted and all on hold for many months till they sorted out everything in new premises, same old drama again, in meantime i had to move to another city for career reasons, so couldnt follow it up that often as was self representing. then one day i get the stupid exparte order without me even getting one word in the court in 5y ordeal as i hadnt got notice of the hearing for expedited hearing/judgement, this after running around 5y behind the farce. and wonder of wonders we had won the case without ever opening my mouth even once in court or ever being able to produce any of my witnesses or even getting to see any of the other parties arguments. we had won solely based on my detailed arguments and paper work submitted when i filed the case!!! we had consulted another layperson who had filed consumer court case previousl before drafting our court case papers, initially self represented but when i moved out of the city had to hire lawyers but lawter discarded them and self represented as they were of no use and just increasing my bills. the comp was actually bought for my brother but he went abroad on studies and i had power of attorney for dealing with these issues. in many countries the courts are so bogged down by cases that for smaller things its best not to go to court, either settle it out of court or accept a loss and put it down to experience and move on or use 'other' methods what ever suitable if u can find some such methods. only honest people get stuffed in the bargain. initially wanted to appeal decision for damages even though we won case but then due to career moves and didnt have time for self representation and family responsibilities (sometimes caring for others ill health etc) decided to call it a day and didnt even ask for the repairs and bought a new one (part exchange for old one) from someone else.

how ever on another occassion made out of court settlement with a builder when undue delays to completion were happening. builder was still on good terms with us later after out of court settlement and used to call us for lunch at his place later sometimes as he got to know us well when we repeatedly pestered him for completion and with the settlement etc!!

sometimes it is better to move on in life. a lot of time is wasted in courts, time which u can spend more usefully otherwise. one cant put a price on peace of mind. that coming for someone whose family fought and won all cases think more than 7 cases against the govt (elsewhere) on career issues etc. but the wins came at a price of lost family time.

but at other times it is financially worth fighting for things that matter even if u r self representing. here in uk, fought and won (didnt need to go to court although was prepared to)twice on payscale issues by self representing when they tried to give me payscles 6-8y less than i was entitled for. 1st time i pursued the matter even after i moved onto another employer and just was about to employ lawyers and fight case when opposite party fully accepted my assessment of what i was due and gave in to my self drafted letters and gave me full back pay after bumping me up 5-6y up the pay grades. another time at another employer having refused to join or sign contract unless after i was selected for job unless they offered me a payscle that i wanted (as had necessary experience) above normal maximum scales, thought i would refuse to join unless they gave me what i was after as was the only outsider shortlisted but still got the job(was surprised myself actually). eventually they agreed to slightly less than i was looking for but still above max of normal scale. got an agreement in writing before joining for work. and imagine my surprise when i get payslip, jerks pay me lowest scale in grade inspite of having agreemnt signed by head of HR confirming pay above max of normal scales. i know of instances where they tried this trick and suceeded with others. talk didnt have any effect as payroll would just say they decide appropriate scale and not HR who appoints people!! sent a strong letter with the 'choicest of words' to the person incharge of all of them with clear indication that if they didnt sort it in next few days i would take further action. with in 12h they had a contract ready with the scale that was assured to me in the 1st place. similarly helped friend self represent and win 6y payhike and backpay. (friend who didnt even buy me a drink later as i had moved to another city by the time we got the money back:rotfl: ). so many times when things look bad, a lot can be done with self representation as well for things u know about, especially when things havent reached the court yet or even in small claims etc if it reaches the courts. but for complicated matters its best to hire lawyers. mentioned the other stuff because there are a few things that laypeople can do by self representing in small matters if they think they can handle the issues and cut legal costs

not_loaded

Looking at this from the seller’s point of view, I am selling up soon. Some F&F will be included in the sale, some may be left if paid for, or may be used as sweeteners on the deal. I fully intend to be honest about what they’re getting, like a six year old tumble dryer and a two year old washing machine. Today they both work well, but I couldn’t say if they’ll be working fully next week, or even tomorrow.

Read the detail on a car MOT. It only covers the day of the MOT test. Surely the same concept applies here unless you got something very specific in writing, such as 15ft x 12ft pond containing X, Y and Z? Or say, a Miele 123AB Dishwasher 8 months old with 2years 4months remaining warranty?

Did you pay extra for specific items? Did you get the opportunity of a final walk round at completion? When it’s ‘conveyed’ to you, it’s yours and they have no more responsibility. Unless it was clearly dealt with in writing I think it’s impossible to know the rights and wrongs of it all.

The surveyor has reasonable get-outs on his work. If he can’t see something and says so, your only recourse there is to get an expert inspection of that item if it matters to you. For example, I have a high efficiency gas fire in my living room. It has a chimney flue. It works fine. However I have no idea if the flue is one thing or another. In summary I can only tell a buyer what I know to be true, ie: it works. Even then, just tomorrow it could be different.

If an item went wrong in the final days of the exchange, I’d be honest enough to sort out a cash deal and get something signed in return. Your sellers certainly sound dubious though with the rather excessive number of faults, and I do sympathise.

ukjoel

I bought a place about ten years ago and had a full survey done with not major issues found. Next door was sold a couple of months later and a about six months down the line they discovered their pipes were of an asbestos type material and no plumber would touch. They has a full survey taken out with same surveyor as us (Countrywide I think) and they went through 3 months of letters before taking them to small claims court for the cost of removal of the pipes as they had been written down as plastic in survey when quite clearly were not. They were painted and in fairness would look plastic but once you touched them you realised they were not.

They agreed to pay for cost of removal the day before going to court.
We simply sent a letter asking for same and had a response saying it was completely different case etc etc.

We took out a small claims action against them and within 48 hours had a letter confirming a cheque was on the way.

They do settle but as other posts say - you need to pick which elements to fight. I cant see a surveyer climbing up a chimney or getting his snorkel on to check the pond.

TomsMom

hushpuppy wrote: »

There were a few cosmetic things wrong that he found, but he kept saying in the report things like, "unable to check .......due to amount of clutter on walls, or amount of furniture, etc"

The sellers made quite a big deal that including in the sale were the built in appliances, a sit on lawn mower and a very well stocked pool with in excess of 30 (very large and expensive) fish including Koi.

Within days of moving in, we discovered the following issues;

1. The water softner doesn't work, and living in a very hard water area is essential, so £750 to replace.
2. The washing machine only works on one setting.
3. The tumble drier is erratic.
4. The dishwasher doesn't clean properly on any setting
5. The fride frezer thermostat is broken
6. Six double glazed untis had broken hinges (so when you open the window it drops so you have to go outside to push it closed)
7. The gas fire place did not have a proper chimney flue (£1000 to repair)
8. The property actually has two (oil) boliers, but the second one was never mentioned and when we had an engineer out, he said, 'I was here last year and told them this boiler needed replacing as it doesn't work.' Cost to replace @£3-4K
9. Heat exchanger for pool is broken, cost to repair/replace £500
10. When it rains heavily/consistently the sunken patio floods coming very close to the damp proof course of the house. We have had a drainage company out who found that the patio she had re-layed had covered up three of the four soak-aways so another £800 to fix.
11. The external drainage to the foul water tank also floods when we have heavy rain, but blocks the shower and bath in the bedrooms, again costing £500 to fix.
12. The well stocked fish pool, on the day we moved in had only SIX goldfish, no sign of the Koi, Rudd, Tench etc that were there. (By our estimations probably about £5k worth of fish are missing).
13. The lawn mower had a broken grass collector, which renders it almost useless.


So for the last 5 months I have been getting more and more depressed as we find even more things wrong with the house, but have not pursued any legal options because of what my Solicitors said.


I feel that the sellers have really got one over on us, as they must have known about the issues with the appliances, the flooding, boiler etc, and if they had told us, maybe we would have accepted it or at least tried to negotiate something further off the price, or got some form of indemnity.

I wrote a polite letter to the seller, explaining the issues, and that I felt let down, but we have never received a reply.

Do I have any re-course with anyone at all? Should I bother or is it a case of 'Buyer beware?'

Hi Hushpuppy

Not sure if this may be of help but could explain things. We are in the process of selling our restaurant and have today had the contract sent to us to sign.

There is a section in the contract "Disclaimer" which says:

"The Buyer admits that the Buyer

1. has inspected the Assets and purchases the Assets with full knowledge of their actual state and condition and takes the Assets as they stand;

2. enters into this Agreement solely as a result of the Buyer's own inspection and on the basis of the terms of this agreement and not in reliance upon any representation or warranty either written or oral, statutory or implied made by or on behalf of the seller................"

So obviously our buyers have had to satisfy themselves that all appliances are in working order (which they have not!) and that there is no comeback on us if they do not work. I am presuming that a similar situation applies with residential sales and that perhaps there was such a clause in your contract?

hushpuppy

Dear all,

Thanks for the advice and comments and sorry I haven't said thank-you earlier but I have been away trying to forget all about this saga.

I have written and submitted the complaint to my solicitors (luckily I am covered through my work scheme, so no massive legal bills) and will wait and see what they advise.

Regards