Bulk LPG - Cheapest suppliers / supply route?

Wee_jock

Morn all
We live in a rural area of Scotland and have been an bulk LPG user since the 80's frequently negotiating with and changing suppliers in attempts to keep costs down. This is laborious and frustrating but due to lack of transparency in the business absolutely necessary. This forum has provided valuable information and advice for us users but has not influenced suppliers to change their ways. It seems to me that only a concerted effort by a unified group or government intervention will change this.
Is there any appetite from Forum users to move this forward? I am keen but have not a clue how to progress it.
Any ideas?

mcmullank

Wee_jock wrote: »

Morn all
We live in a rural area of Scotland and have been an bulk LPG user since the 80's frequently negotiating with and changing suppliers in attempts to keep costs down. This is laborious and frustrating but due to lack of transparency in the business absolutely necessary. This forum has provided valuable information and advice for us users but has not influenced suppliers to change their ways. It seems to me that only a concerted effort by a unified group or government intervention will change this.
Is there any appetite from Forum users to move this forward? I am keen but have not a clue how to progress it.
Any ideas?

The CMA have already indicated that they think that the market is working in their updated FAQs. https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/557585/lpg-q-and-as-october-2016.pdf

The lack of consumer protection for those that are off-grid is a sad indictment of the influence and outright lies that were accepted when the Competition Commission investigated the market a decade ago. In short they believe that a competitive market is in place. That we now have 4% switching per year, no price transparency, no requirement of a tank owner to keep the tank up to current standards (and therefore provide a reason not to switch) does not appear to me to be the characteristics of a properly functioning market.

Myself and others have raised these concerns with the relevant authorities but I feel the "we can't be *rsed looking again" attitude is the predominate one.

Of course it could be that only 4% of the market are unhappy with the way that their supplier performs and prices the product. All indicators from those that know the operating practices of these companies would indicate that this is not the case and are we really stating that the LPG market is so much better than the on-grid (13.9% switched in the last 4 quarters).

Edit: Of course the way to sort all of this out is to remove the tank ownership from the energy providers in the same way that National Grid own the electricity and gas distribution infrastructure. This is what happens with kerosene but I realise that the LPG tanks are significantly more hazardous and therefore rather than have self-ownership, lets have a company own the tanks and charge the tank rental directly. Do this and the only basis that the companies could compete against each other would be price. No two year agreements required, no switching providers - just call up the LPG suppliers when you need a fill and see who provides the most competitive price.

J_B

mcmullank wrote: »

......... and therefore rather than have self-ownership, lets have a company own the tanks and charge the tank rental directly. Do this and the only basis that the companies could compete against each other would be price. No two year agreements required, no switching providers - just call up the LPG suppliers when you need a fill and see who provides the most competitive price.

Sounds good to me ...

mcmullank

J_B wrote: »

Sounds good to me ...

MSE Tanks Ltd?

brownedge

My LPG supplier has annoyed me by changing the level gauge without my knowledge and without telling me about it. I only discovered the change when I went to check the tank contents, which was 4 months after the last fill-up in July, as I am a very light user and had consumed practically none in the late summer months. I always monitored the fuel level myself, and only needed to phone if I needed a fill-up. That arrangement suited me well, until they sent a telemetry technician to change the gauge for one that sends a signal directly to the supply depot. I am not happy with the new gauge, I am sure that it indicates about 25% less than is actually in the tank. That is not fatal, but is certainly a nuisance. After I complained in a detailed letter, they apologised and put my account back to self-monitoring. It is very unsatisfactory, but I will not pursue it further and would probably end up making matters even more complicated. Have other bulk tank customers had a similar unwanted change of the instrumentation?

AdrianC

brownedge wrote: »

I am not happy with the new gauge, I am sure that it indicates about 25% less than is actually in the tank. That is not fatal, but is certainly a nuisance.

Not nearly as much as one that over-reads would be...

Is it a big problem? You'll just fill up earlier, sure, but you won't actually use any more gas or spend any more money. If you're on monthly DD, then it'll still spread in exactly the same way.

mcmullank

brownedge wrote: »

Have other bulk tank customers had a similar unwanted change of the instrumentation?

You haven't stated who your supplier is. I have a visit from Flogas earlier in the month to "fix" the telemetry equipment. I am currently on a "phone and fill" so I questioned the need for it but I haven't noticed that the gauge has been changed.

brownedge

Thanks mcmullank for your comment. My supplier is Calor. As I said, although it is annoying, I am leaving the situation alone now, lest I make matters worse.

rural_dave_78

I've found this thread useful over the years so thought I would post my recent experience to encourage people not to get caught by Calor's recent price rises. I'm in SE Cambridgeshire. All prices below ex vat.

June 2015: Started 2 year supply agreement following underground tank install @ 40ppl.
March 2016: Calor price reduced to 36ppl
Sept 2016: Calor price increased to 39ppl
Nov 2016: Calor increase again to 46ppl (!) and trigger my option to break contract due to greater than 3.5ppl price increase in 3 month period. In the same letter they offered me a 6 month fix at 47ppl. Note my price rise was notified on Nov 14th and you only get 30 days to cancel the supply agreement.

I'm in the process of taking that option and have been quoted Year 1: 29ppl, Year 2: Max 32.5ppl from Flogas. Hopefully the supplier & tank transfer will be painless...

Best,

Dave

bobmac62

WOLDLINK DECEMBER 2016 PRICING

Despite the sudden increase in crude oil prices earlier this week Woldlink has remained at the same level charged in November, remaining at 25.95ppl +5% VAT