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£5000 bill for 5 – 6 years of outstanding council tax bill!, Landlords fault !!!

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justwondering25
justwondering25 Posts: 266 Forumite
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edited 23 January 2017 at 3:20PM in House buying, renting & selling
£5000 bill for 5 – 6 years of outstanding council tax bill!, due to the Landlord not registering the property with the local council. :(

The valuer is coming on behalf of the council this week, therefore within 28 days I assume I will be presented with a rather large outstanding council tax bill.

Edited :- I am based in England.

We have already been told by the council that regardless of the original contract signed with the landlord, the tenant will be billed for the council tax, this I accept will be the case and I have the funds to pay the bill in full.

My contract appears to state that the Landlord would cover the costs of the council tax as detailed in the original tenancy agreement contract.

I also have copies of all the original email correspondence from 2011 from the letting agent, clearing stating :- (Cut and Paste from the email) :-

“The property has electric heating, no gas but yes, council tax & water are
Included in the rent. You only need to pay for electricity and telephone.”

Do I have a small claims court case if required to reclaim funds from my landlord for the costs of the council tax bill based on one of the terms and conditions in the original signed agreement?

Thoughts, opinions and advice please:-

I have tried to keep my post as concise as possible while attempting to include as much background history as possible.

I signed a contract with my current landlord back in 2011 one bedroom self-contained small converted barn / granny annex, located on my landlords land, it is not attached to his main house, but is attached to his workshop/garage, I was told the money paid each month £500 included all the bills and costs, except, electric, phone and broadband, I read the contract and it appears that the council tax cost are detailed and part of the contract and for my landlord to cover that cost.

Fast forward 5 years and Due to me registering to vote for Brexit back in 2016 , this has led to the current situation , An estimated incoming bill of just over £5000 for 5 years unpaid council tax , due to the landlord not registering the small building on his land that I reside in, the landlord is pleading ignorance and he assumed the 2nd building was included as part his council tax bill , he has offered to pay half of the arrears….I was told when I moved it , all council tax costs where included in full.

There is a term and condition that appears to states the landlord would deal with the council tax (advice required), ultimately can I reclaim the amount through the small claims court, the cost of the council tax as it appears under contract the landlord has agreed to foot that particular bill at his cost during my tenancy.

Please note the contract signed was via a professional high street letting agent, with a full terms and conditions assured shorthold tenancy agreement and at a suitable local market value based on certain bills been included.

Clause (2b) has been typed and copied verbatim.

Section C – Standard Terms

2 : Tenant’s Undertakings

You Are Required to Pay as Follows

Various other clauses before and after clause (2b), but my questions are based on:-

Clause (2b) The Landlord will deal with the council tax (and water charges) payable in respect of the property for the duration of the Tenancy , or any other local Government or national tax levied upon occupation or Tenancy.

My ponderings and questions:-

1) The original 6 month Tenancy agreement was signed in November 2011, no new contract has been signed since the original signing date.

My landlord agreed verbally that my wife could move in 2015, no new contract was signed.

I assume after the six month tenancy agreement ended I then entered onto a "Statutory Periodic tenancy" with the same terms and conditions as stated in the original tenancy agreement is that correct ?

Do the same terms and conditions as agreed in the original tenancy agreement still stand all the way through from the original date of signing up to present day ? Or where they only valid for 6 months, most importantly in respect of the landlord (2b) charges and services does that clause still remain valid?

My Main Concern With no new contract been signed, have I slipped into some type of standard basic agreement where clause (2b) would not be assumed? E.g. if the matter went to court would the contract suggest the landlord had only agreed to pay for 6 months of the council tax, due to the contract ending or has the contract not ended as no new terms and conditions have been signed ?

2) Section (2) of the agreement is titled as Tenants undertakings "You Are Required to Pay as Follows" does this implies regardless of (2b) that all the following terms detailed below in section 2 are chargeable and payable by the tenant e.g. council tax and water rates?

3) Clause (2b) the phrase "the landlord will deal with:-

“(2b) The Landlord will deal with the council tax (and water charges) payable in respect of the property for the duration of the Tenancy , or any other local Government or national tax levied upon occupation or Tenancy.”

Does (2b) actually suggests the tenant would be paying for the council tax as it is below the heading “2 : Tenant’s Undertakings” but with the landlord merely acting as the collector of funds from the tenant /administrator of the funds / which would in turn be handed over to the council for the payment of the applicable council tax?

4) So if my landlord refuses to reimburse or pay me for the council tax bill, although he is currently talking a 50 / 50 split deal on the bill, is 50/50 not such a bad deal ?

Or do I have a water tight legal case to be reimbursed for the full amount of any council tax bills that I will be charged during the period of the tenancy from November 2011 until the date the property is vacated.

If required, I do have the funds to pay the outstanding council tax in full then to seek to be compensated for the full cost of all council tax costs from the start of the tenancy.

The original contract signing date is longer than 5 years ago, which I believe is the length of time allowable to reclaim funds in the small claims court.

Guestimation:-

Comparable property local property suggests: - Council tax band A


2011 400
2012 815 (if 25 % single person discount is allowed to be applied retrospectively)
2013 815
2014 815
2015 1087 (Married)
2016 1087
2017

Estimated outstanding amount £5019

I have visited my local Citizens Advice Bureau, they said that it appears to them that the landlord has indeed agreed in principle to pay all costs related to the council tax regardless of the bill been in my name and should be reclaimable through the small claims court , but I am unsure if that is indeed the case , the person I went into see at the my local C.A.B might not be A expert in this field.

Feeling concerned and a tad confused!!

I have not yet approached a solicitor.

All help and insight would be most welcome.
!!!!! Lifes wonderful !!!!!
«13456712

Comments

  • lincroft1710
    lincroft1710 Posts: 17,648 Forumite
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    edited 23 January 2017 at 3:15PM
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    Are you in England or Wales?

    Because if you are in England and your home is treated as an annex by the Valuation Office Agency (the government body responsible for assessing Council Tax bands) it will not be backdated. If it is in Wales or is treated as a separate dwelling then it will be backdated.

    If you are unlucky enough to be in a category for backdating do be aware that the single person discount may not be backdated.
    If you are querying your Council Tax band would you please state whether you are in England, Scotland or Wales
  • justwondering25
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    Sorry , I am in England.
    !!!!! Lifes wonderful !!!!!
  • foxy-stoat
    foxy-stoat Posts: 6,879 Forumite
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    Wait until you get the bill for this and all previous years, noting when the the single person allowance discount was removed.

    Give the Landlord a copy and ask for full settlement as the terms of the original tenancy, if he doesnt then proceed with a small claims track. You may/should have to pay the difference after you would of lost the single person allowance to be fair and reasonable if it ever went in front of a Judge.

    Your original tenancy's terms apply to your SPT so no reason why you should not be reimbursed in full for the council tax.

    Utlimately you should of registered with the local council the day you moved in whether its in your contract that the Landlord was paying or not. You will be liable to settle the bill then reclaim off the Landlord.

    Up to you if you take his 50% offer, but as part of that offer he should now be giving you a new AST with a reduction in the rent to cover the council tax you will be out of pocket and going forward. If you decide to pursue further then probably best you look for somewhere else to live.

    Good luck and let us know how you get on.
  • lincroft1710
    lincroft1710 Posts: 17,648 Forumite
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    It will very much depend on the planning permission whether your home is treated as an annex or separate dwelling. If the pp specifies it cannot be sold separately from the landlord's house then it is an annex.
    If you are querying your Council Tax band would you please state whether you are in England, Scotland or Wales
  • justwondering25
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    Thank you for your reply , on my tenancy agreement , it is stated as "Name of property Annex"

    The property appears to be a old converted old out building , attached to my landlords garage / home workshop.

    I appreciate the point though , if indeed it is considered as a Annex by the valuer.

    What makes a Annex a official Annex ?
    !!!!! Lifes wonderful !!!!!
  • Guest101
    Guest101 Posts: 15,764 Forumite
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    If your contract says your LL will pay then ofcourse you can take them to court....
  • CIS
    CIS Posts: 12,260 Forumite
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    Legally the local authority must bill the person who is liable under legislation for the council tax charge and will do so from the date the valuation office set the effective date of the band - the council can only charge from this date.

    Any agreement with your landlord is purely a personal agreement and must be pursued separately, the council are not interested in that side of things ( http://lgfa92.co.uk/council-tax-tenancy-agreement-and-who-should-pay/ ) as they have already advised you. Over the years I've seen many cases of tenants who have been told by the landlord that they would pay for them and it's turned in to a mess - I suspect the landlord in this case was trying to conceal the property to prevent the additional charge. If need be you can commence a small claims court case against the landlord.

    In respect of backdating discounts there shouldn't be a problem but the council may try with a 6 yr limit under the Limitation Act as you're right on the cusp for some of it. If they won't play ball on backdating then you would, ultimately, need to appeal for a valuation tribunal decision but that can be dealt with as and if it is needed. The negative side is that the valuation tribunals still don't seem to have an overall clear view on the backdating but there are some useful points which can be argued. (http://lgfa92.co.uk/council-tax-backdating-and-the-limitations-act-1980/)

    Craig
    I no longer work in Council Tax Recovery but instead work as a specialist Council Tax paralegal assisting landlords and Council Tax payers with council tax disputes and valuation tribunals. My views are my own reading of the law and you should always check with the local authority in question.
  • justwondering25
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    P.s I would like to add , that the property I live in is self contained , with its own toilet , kitchen and enterance .
    !!!!! Lifes wonderful !!!!!
  • lincroft1710
    lincroft1710 Posts: 17,648 Forumite
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    There is no such thing as an "official annex". Council Tax legislation uses the term for a dwelling which is a self contained unit of living accommodation attached, part of, or in the grounds of another dwelling which cannot be sold separately from that dwelling.

    A block of flats is an example of a single building which contains several dwellings, but as there is no "main dwelling", all the flats are treated as separate dwellings and thus not annexes and in most cases capable of being sold separately.
    If you are querying your Council Tax band would you please state whether you are in England, Scotland or Wales
  • justwondering25
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    What are your thoughts on the wording of clause 2b in respect of the pharse "to deal with"

    Clause (2b) the phrase "the landlord will deal with:-

    “(2b) The Landlord will deal with the council tax (and water charges) payable in respect of the property for the duration of the Tenancy , or any other local Government or national tax levied upon occupation or Tenancy.”

    Does (2b) actually suggests the tenant would be paying for the council tax as it is below the heading “2 : Tenant’s Undertakings” but with the landlord merely acting as the collector of funds from the tenant /administrator of the funds / which would in turn be handed over to the council for the payment of the applicable council tax?
    !!!!! Lifes wonderful !!!!!
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