My dog had cardiac arrest in small cage at vets after 14 hours

telboy82 · 4 April 2017 at 7:23PM

Hi all,
firstly thank you for taking the time to read my story, ive come here because im trying to find information online but not getting very far, my dog passed away this morning in the care of the vets am im sure its down to how he was treated there, so im going to tel our story and if anyone can guide me in the right direction that would be great, I feel I owe it to my lost companion.
So yesterday morning my dog which is a large Johnsons American Bulldog, nearly 8 years old, muscley and healthy at 55kg, he has had the odd 24 hour bug before maybe twice and nothing else ever, so at 9:30am he starts being sick indoors twice very quickly bringing up his morning breakfast, as this happened i see a large half rugby ball size lump pop out from his belly as he was sick and it went away as soon as he was finished being sick, within a second i panicked and thought Bloat straight away, I rung the vets and they told me to bring him down at 3:10pm, i also called my wife at work to hurry and come to help me and get him to the vets, he wasnt sick again but he was very restless and thirsty as his mouth kept going dry, we got him in the car and rushed to London to a well known charity based vet clinic weve have took our pets to for about 15 years so we had a lot o trust in them, they also knew that they had a dog with suspected bloat coming in, so im there 3pm with my dog but had to wait to around 4pm to get him seen.
The vet was sure it might not be bloat as she said he would have definatley died by now but he is obviously unwell so they wanted to keep him in and do an xray and blood test to find the problem, and said he will be ok but we need to keep him overnight. My dog hasnt spent a night away from me ever and is a big baby and very easily upset and scared and i told them this, and this is where I fall to pieces.
We had to weigh him in the vets room and he didn't want to so i had to lift him on the scales and when i had to lift him off because he was scared and one of the 2 vets in the room tutted like it was an inconvenience and when i had to hand him and his lead to the vet he didnt want to go and the vet actually grabbed him by the collar around his neck to try and drag him which made me angry so i managed to slide him away into the next room and that was that and we left, this was at around 4pm.
While back at home waiting for news but we had to make a call at 6pm as they didnt call, and they said he is stable and sedated in his cage and the xray shows nothing to worry about neither does the blood test but they need to find out the problem so they will call the next morning(today) at 10am, well i had to call back again last night at 9pm to see how he was as i was very worried about him, not just his condition but his welfare as i know he would be very scared there and i offered many times to come down to comfort him or keep him company because i knew he needed that being away from home they said no, on the phone call at 9pm the vet said hes sedation wore of but he is sitting up fine in his cage and they will call us in the morning, they also said he tried to escape his cage, which started me worrying very much then.
my wife answered a call this morning at 9:20 to say he passed away this morning about 6am due to cardiac arrest.
We couldnt talk on the phone due to shock and wanted to get down there asap to find out what happened and to say goodbye to my friend, before we got there my gut as telling me something was wrong because he was in the right place to get emergency treatment, my mind was telling me why was he sedated and how many times was he sedated, i know they probably sedated him to get the xray but if that wore before 9pm because they told us on the phone, my worry was if they sedated him again, and also did he get that scared he panicked to bring on his heart attack.
So we arrive at the vets and wait to be taken in the room again and hear what happened, the same vet who told me not to worry my dog will be fine starting saying they were very shocked at what happened and they dont know how or why he had a cardiac arrest and offered to do and autopsy to which i declined, i felt they wanted to put more effort in after his death than before, i also know my dog was going to be very upset there with maybe separation anxiety etc as he is scared easy and never been away from home, and wanted to get to the bottom of why he passed instead of trying to give them a chance to pass the blame on to my dogs health which seemed all very good.
So the vet told me again that yesterday they did an xray and blood test but found nothing and couldnt do anything else yesterday due to his sedation and wanted that to wear off by this morning to carry on treating him, problem is I knew he needed emergency treatment yesterday when he was in a bad restless state and he didnt get it and that i believe between the drugs and being scared there in this cage this probably led to a cardiac arrest and that surely this could of been avoided, anyway a few things were said but she kept try to tell me 8 years is actually old for these dogs and they have weak hearts, these dogs average age is actually 10-15.
Then i said ok can i go and say goodbye to my dog now thats what i need to do, so they went to take the fluids line out so we didnt have to him with needles in him, me and my wife then walk to a back room on the ground level where mainly cats are kept inside a kind of bespoke cage of lots of little cages on the wall (keep in mind they have another 3 levels with rooms etc) at the bottom is a couple of larger cages but not large enough, in one of the cages was my dog lying down on his side with barely if not enough room to even stretch his legs out straight, its was a few inches longer than his body and if he sat or stood in there im positive his head would of been touching the top, im sure he could get up and lay down on his front belly only but im pretty sure he never had enough room to turn around or even lay on his side with legs out stretched, as soon as i see him in the cage i was shocked and said "is this where you kept my dog all day yesterday till when he died" and she said yes, at this moment i was positive my poor dog was so scared being in a cage he couldnt move around in all that time being separated from us, no wonder he tried to escape the cage he couldnt move in, it wasnt built for a dog at 120lbs/ 55kg its for smaller dogs, he probably got scared to death in that cage, i feel that they neglected him in that cage, and if he played up which he did they should of offered for us to collect him and bring him back in the morning or if anything gets worse which i was more than prepared to do, and if they didnt have the correct size cage for such a large dog why didnt they show us where he was going to be kept to see if we think he would be ok there or not, or why didnt they just say based on your dogs size we are not the best place to keep him and refer someone with large enough cages or rooms for my dog, he has no room in that cage and i looked at all the cats who had comfortable amounts of room in there cages, i was so angry at the way he was treated and thought in all that time he just had an xray and blood test then was let in his tiny cage to panic to death, it looked so cruel i just broke down crying and saying sorry to him, because if they showed me that cage before i let them take him i would of laughed at them and said he wouldnt last 10 minutes in that cage. So i truly believe not out of spite but in my heart he was treated very poorly with neglect and im pretty sure that cage size from what i can find online was for a dog around 90lbs maximum and my dog is a big 120+lbs, I owe it to him because i see that cage i would have rushed him elsewhere as he had time for treatment he didnt get, and i would of made sure he wouldnt of been put in such a small cage. im in absolute pieces over this because i believe my dog most likely had a very traumatic experience in that small cage and they probably over sedated him to just get him to settle, and if this is the way vets are going then they just got sloppy with the wrong animal owner and if i can id like to make point and possibly sue this company just to make point about animals in cages as it obviously causes huge problems for some dogs and can make the situation worse if they cannot provide the right facilities for a dogs welfare, i wanted to take a picture of the cage but there were some people in the way of the cage next door and the other cage had my boy in it and i couldnt take a photo of him i was crying too much. So does anyone feel that a dog shouldnt be kept in a cage that they cannot turn around in comfortably or at all, and how do i sue them or this cruel neglect.

questionss · 4 April 2017 at 9:17PM

I'm sorry for your loss. It must have been a horrible few days
Without an autopsy you are unlikely to get anywhere if you attempt to sue as there is nothing to indicate the cause of death, no matter what you believe. If that is still an option I would suggest you take it, you can ask for it to be performed elsewhere if you wish. Your dog was ill when admitted, he may not have been showing much on X-ray or blood tests but he was ill & it is far more likely that Whatever made him ill is why he passed away. Charities are unlikely to admit & investigate like that unless they are very concerned. Please try not to feel guilty, you were trying to help him, they were trying to help him - as well as the test's he was on fluids for that time, that's why he was away from you, that can't be done at home.
2hours (4-6pm) isn't that long to wait for a call back, if they are busy working on him that takes priority - blood tests, results, X-rays all take time. Usually vets wait till sedation has worn off & animals are awake before they call owners so they can give all the news tigether.
Animals are sometimes put in smaller than ideal kennels if they are on a drip as it allows the drop to work a lot better and reduces the risk of tangling/pulling it out etc.
Did you sign a consent form for the sedation - it will have been needed for the X-rays.

I hope you are able to chat to your vet, get some answers and find some peace at this difficult time

krlyr · 4 April 2017 at 9:20PM

Negligence complaints can be referred to the VCMS:
http://findavet.rcvs.org.uk/concerns/i-want-to-raise-a-concern-about-a-veterinary-surgeon/

If you want to sue them, then I would seek legal advice, probably any members with adequate knowledge to advise you on the matter will most likely charge for that knowledge rather than give it away from free.

Very sorry to hear what happened to your dog, but animals are living beings and you can't know for sure what happened to cause his death, it may have been through stress or it may have been an underlying medical condition. I know you refused the postmortem, but I would suggest enquiring about it if it's still a possibility. Not only could the results help in legal matters, but it may provide a form of closure for yourselves too.

telboy82 · 5 April 2017 at 12:25PM

Thank you for your very kind words Questionss and Krlyr, im afraid I cannot allow my boy to have an autopsy because im quite sure the cardiac arrest he had may have been prevented if his cage was larger for him or had a small kennel type room, I do blame myself very much or this because I should have checked out where they were going to keep him, I would of taken him elsewhere because even without any underlying illness he would of suffered terribly being confined to there cage, I should of checked and used the precious time I had to use and take him to the most suitable vet, where I could either remain with him to keep him calm or keep visiting him and at least give him enough room to move about with out panicking so much, his mother is still alive in the next town its so sad, its my fault for allowing him to stay there all that time without checking on the type of welfare he would get, as I said that cage isnt meant for dog 120lbs+ regardless if he was getting fluids, surely he was getting fluids for 14 hours so therefore shouldnt of been in that cage, I allowed that to happen but thats where trust gets you and not checking for yourself, although I blame myself for putting him in that vets I blame them for his death also as i believe they confined a restless dog to a confined space so small he has never experienced such trauma and we told them he has never left us and he will panic and play up, surely the treatment of my dog and the cage size for my dog holds some weight somewhere because I wont allow him to be disturbed anymore he is at rest.

telboy82 · 5 April 2017 at 7:05PM

on rcvs.org I read some good information on how the vets are supposed to put the animals welfare first, which in my dogs case wasnt, the vets are supposed to listen to the client and any worries they have, when we asked to take our dog to the his holding place they wouldnt allow it and just said he was going to be ok, but from what ive read we had every right to go with him to his holding cage or room to be satisfied with the welfare he was getting, as ive said before if they allowed us to help take him to his holding i would never of let him go in that cage as his welfare is priority, they ignored this and all we told them, il put in a few paragraphs from the guidelines:

. 2.1 The Codes of Professional Conduct state that veterinary surgeons and veterinary nurses must provide veterinary care and veterinary nursing care that is appropriate and adequate.

2.2 Veterinary surgeons and veterinary nurses are personally accountable for their professional practice and must always be prepared to justify their decisions and actions. When providing care, veterinary surgeons and veterinary nurses should:
take all reasonable care in using their professional skills to treat animals.

make decisions on treatment regimes based first and foremost on animal health and welfare considerations, but also the needs and circumstances of the client.

recognise the need, in some cases, to balance what treatment might be necessary, appropriate or possible against the circumstances, wishes and financial considerations of the client*

provide an environment in which animals are subjected to minimum stress and provided with optimal care(in my dogs case that was the the most traumatic experience he could of experienced in his cage)

Hospitalisation and in-patient care:

2.5 Veterinary surgeons and veterinary nurses should provide appropriate and adequate in-patient care.

2.6 Clients are entitled to have their animals housed in a comfortable environment, monitored and treated commensurate with the animal's condition, by persons with the requisite level of knowledge and expertise.

2.7 Before leaving an animal at a practice, the owner, keeper or carer should be made aware of the level of supervision that will be provided to the animal, particularly the level of supervision outside normal working hours. Different levels of care required arise in differing circumstances. (this is where they should of allowed us to help take our dog to his housing to be made aware of how he will be looked after and i would known they didnt have the facilities to look after him in house, this is where my dogs welfare is non existent because they should of offered to show us his cage when we expressed our concerns that he will be very scared and play up due to anxiety.

So from what the guidelines state they should of accepted our request and wishes to take him to his holding to be fully satisfied with the welfare he would receive, they refused us this which i feel led to his death, they didnt listen to us and our concerns at all its terrible that they can get away with this, I really want to get justice for my dog and make these vets and other vets step up there practice and realize animals welfare especially big dogs are just as important as their condition, as the guidelines say. My dog was not in a comfortable or adequate environment, this stressed and scared my dog so much they didnt care to contact us to see what other options were available, extremely careless for a vets in my mind, I cant let them get away with it.

telboy82 · 5 April 2017 at 8:04PM

gla.ac.uk states
General Principles of Small Animal Housing:

Basic environment
All animals are entitled to the Five Freedoms wherever they are housed. Basic requirements such
as an agreeable physical environment are necessary, and the animal should be well cared for.
The Five Freedoms are a set of five basic rules concerning the welfare of animals. They apply to
the housing of both large and small animals. They are as follows:
1) Freedom from hunger and thirst
2) Freedom from discomfort
3) Freedom from pain, injury and disease
4) Freedom to express normal behaviour
5) Freedom from fear and distress
Wherever any animals are housed, they are entitled by law to these rights.
(number 2,4 and 5 were not given to my dog, if he couldn't get up and walk around with just a little room to spare and lay down with enough room in his restless painful situation, they shouldn't of took him in and suggested a more appropriate vet for his welfare because the law says he should be able to express normal behavior which to me means being able to move around without difficulty, also he was far from ear and distress trying to escape his cage.

Jojo_the_Tightfisted · 5 April 2017 at 9:10PM

Sorry you lost your dog.

AB's often have/had other breeds bred into the line and, as such, combined with their size (seems like yours was right on the far end of the size scale), can be vulnerable to heart and other problems, even when carefully bred by a professional breeder, rather than a BYB or puppy farm.

It's not likely that he was frightened to death - it's far more likely that whatever you were bringing him in for led to it. And the odds of successfully suing them for placing him in a cage when he was obviously ill and needed to be sedated for drip insertion/blood tests are next to nil, even before you get to the issue that you'd be suing a charity that provides free veterinary treatment for people on benefits and you wouldn't be eligible for legal aid, never mind that you refused a post mortem which could have revealed what was actually wrong with him.

I'd suggest you get in touch with the breeder to let them know there's potentially an issue with their line (they might be able to give you some more information, whether due to similar happening to others from the dam or the stud, or would at least be aware for subsequent pairings that a different stud might be better - if they're not a BYB, anyway).

There are always outliers - dogs that naturally live shorter times or longer. I'm sorry if this has happened to yours.

krlyr · 6 April 2017 at 1:47AM

telboy82 wrote: »

Thank you for your very kind words Questionss and Krlyr, im afraid I cannot allow my boy to have an autopsy because im quite sure the cardiac arrest he had may have been prevented if his cage was larger for him or had a small kennel type room

"Quite sure" wouldn't hold much ground if you took this to court/to further proceedings, especially as a non medical professional with a strong bias in the situation. If a post mortem confirmed your suspicions, you have evidence to proceed. If it doesn't, it may give you some form of closure.

telboy82 · 6 April 2017 at 7:37AM

I cant find much online about action taken against vets in this type of situation, what I will say is its obvious every year hundreds of people are seeing vets mistreat animals on the welfare side and on the health, these are two separate things, also can assure you ive taken a company to court before with no experience because I knew i had grounds to sue them because they were wrong in something they did, represented myself and won, made them look silly, this is not impossible, also Jojo the tightfisted how would you know in the slightest how scared this dog was, as far as they are aware nothing was the matter with him because they found nothing on xray or blood tests, also remember his health and his welfare although connected have they are also separate and if the dogs welfare is at risk they needed to act, they took a dog in that was restless, and by law that dog was entitled to exhibit normal behavior, which he never was, 14 hours in cage approx 1300 x 800 x 700, how can you keep a big restless dog that needs to move around in this size cage, sedated i can understand but not while he is awake because its adding stress to the dog that is not needed, they knew this and did nothing, didnt call me once we had to call them, when they let him out once or a toilet they said he was nice and strong then, thats because he wanted to stay out that cage and come home, but they put him back in unsedated wide awake for the rest of the night, or probably sedated him again for no reason to calm him down if acting up. Do not make out all vets are saints they are not there are some extremely incompetent and nasty vets out there thats a fact, a dogs welfare and well being is priority so saying that just because he was a little sick that morning was probably what killed him is the easy thing to say which sorry unless also proven isnt true, the cause of death is cardiac arrest, if there is cctv in that room i will be requesting it as this should prove how restless he may of been in that cage, he did try and bust out of it which tells me he was scared, and yes they can have weak hearts, but which dog breed doesnt really, like i said his mother is in the next town, either way the fact remains this is a problem with the welfare they gave my dog which was terrible and no autopsy can prove his poor welfare was justified.

sheramber · 6 April 2017 at 1:29PM

An autopsy would provide evidence of no other health matter that could have contributed to his death.

My friend's young dog started vomiting. She took him to the vet who examined him and xrayed him but found no reason for the vomiting. Dog came home and as fine for 24 hours but next morning was found in a state of collapse. By the time they got him to the vet he was dead.

An autopsy revealed part of a hollow rubber ball had stuck against his stomach wall. Because it lay flat against the stomach wall it did not show up on the xray.

My friend had no idea he had swallowed anything or where he found it.

The vet was devastated that the dog had died but no blame was attached to him as he could not have known the piece of rubber ball was there.

My friend had closure as to what caused her dog's death. Without the autopsy she would always have been wondering what happened and why did a healthy young dog die so suddenly.

telboy82 · 6 April 2017 at 2:33PM

Still no need or an autopsy, please understand any animals welfare comes before their health so i can fully understand the defensive comments for the vets actions, however its the welfare my dog received that is the issue now, regardless of what underlying issue may or may not of been present, im sure it was 2 nurses now that see my dog not even an experienced vet, also they didnt do any heart or temperature checks on him while we were there which he gets on a standard check up, how can inexperienced staff make the judgement to keep him in and refuse my right to take him to his holding so me the client is fully satisfied with my pets welfare, its the law, i was refused this, also ive been on the phone to belgravia house RCVS and they agree he was neglected and they shouldnt of taken him in if they didnt have the correct facilities to board him, also they had no right to refuse my wishes to take him to his holding to be satisfied with his welfare, its not just black and white like a dog dies so must find and illness or something through an autopsy to get an answer that may be false anyway, i can understand about closure but there will be no closure here because his rights and mine were ignored, an autopsy will do nothing here this is about how the animal was treated in the welfare side, it was cruel, un needed and easily avoided they didnt have the facilities so should of been honest and done a spot check to see how he was while we were there and suggested taking him to somewhere that could facilitate him, if a hospital doesnt have a bed they wont stick you in the store cupboard they will refuse you a bed and refer you elsewhere that can facilitate you, if welfare is most important in the veternary field then it should appear so which it doesnt, they failed here and will get investigated and I will take them to court for negligence which im told by RCVS is what happened so they have kindly put me on the right path to get justice, and i dont care they are a charity based vets either, its not just for people on benefits, ive never been on benefits in my life and ive been paying this vets for care for about 20 years for cats, most of their customers are paying because they offer cheaper treatment thats all, and the practice has gone down hill and needs to be taught a lesson to put animals welfare first, not just take in any animal in for the money, if they put my dogs welfare before money they would of been honest and told me they couldnt facilitate him, or gave me my right to take him there so i could make my own judgement to see, serious misconduct here and negligence, he shouldnt of been in the holding unless he was sedated, so unless anyone can tell me that its ok to have in such a small cage that must mean its ok to sedate a dog or 14 hours when they dont know whats wrong with him, or even if he was sedated or 2-4 hours he still spent 10-12 hours awake in a cage that he shouldnt of been in to protect his welfare, either way its a disgrace an autopsy means diddly squat i have enough on misconduct and negligence alone.

My dog had cardiac arrest in small cage at vets after 14 hours

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