The EU: IN or OUT?
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Chickabiddybex wrote: »I am saying the truth, I'll quote myself: "The most likely outcome is one similar to Norway"
As you can see I have said that it is the most likely option not the 100% certain option.
You are being selective. If I quote a different part of your post
"We would enter an agreement with the EU to keep access to the single market and that would include joiining the Schengen area."
My bolding. - Neither of those two statements are a fact - so you are not telling the truth - which is your word, not mine.
Why do you keep bringing Schengen into it? I believe Norway had to accept free movement of European people to get its free trade agreement but that is not the same as the Schengen agreement. The UK currently has to accept free movement of European people but we are not in Schengen - why do you imagine that should change.Chickabiddybex wrote: »......... I'm not saying we will too 100% because no one can predict the future. I'm saying it is the most likely outcome.
You are saying "would". That is 100%, there is no option when the word is "would".
In any case, I hope that the best option is for the UK is to stay in the EU but with a much better deal - mostly much greater freedom to do our own thing as well. Some quite senior MPs are lining themselves up for that option - and it might keep everybody happy (except perhaps the French:)) To get that better deal we need to vote Leave.0 -
Had both sets of inlaws over at the weekend. Made for an "interesting" evening when they are both adamant they are right and are on opposite sides!
!
You have my sympathy lol
My wife arrived home and told me to read the following :
http://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2016/06/divorcing-europe/
She said it might make things clearer for me lol0 -
I would have thought that the terms of departure were likely to include revised terms of trade. It seems strange to separate them especially when doing so causes most of the economic damage that you mention.The treaty provides for two years for the terms of departure alone - there is no timescale for negotiation of revised terms of trade with potential trading partners who we have just damaged politically and economically.There is plenty to be afraid of if we leave
I prefer Project Fear to Project Pangloss,which is what many of this thread appear to be voting for.
The problem is that there is plenty to be afraid of if we stay. The EUs political and economic collapse is not impossible. The recent Italian elections were not helpful to the EU, the forthcoming Spanish elections could also be unhelpful. Greece continues to be a problem both politically (a lot of the rest wish they would leave) and economically. France continues to enjoy strikes and Germany continues to try to appease Turkey to avoid that immigration route restarting. Then there is talk of this US trade deal, an EU army and so on and those are just the short term problems.0 -
As the fog of brexit war clears, it looks increasingly likely that far from settling the issue, the referendum presages a year of chaos whatever the result.0
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ManofLeisure wrote: »As the fog of brexit war clears, it looks increasingly likely that far from settling the issue, the referendum presages a year of chaos whatever the result.
Exactly my thoughts. If the result is close (less than 10%) either way it will be a sore that never heals.
Indeed whatever the result it will not stop the increasing disaffection
Europe wide for the EU. There will either be true reform (highly doubtful due to the way the EU works) or another country will leave and it may well be France rather than Holland etc.0 -
What I find remarkable is how much agreement there is that the best result for the country is to remain in the EU.
Has there ever been a previous occasion when the General Secretary of the TUC and the leaders of all the major political parties have been in agreement about the best way to vote?
All former Prime Ministers support 'Remain' as do 90% of economists.
MI5, MI6, ACPO all say we are safer remaining in the EU
Environmentalists, Scientific and Business Community are all strongly in favour of 'Remain.
I'm not aware of any world leader, apart from possibly Vladimir Putin, that thinks Brexit is sensible?0 -
Yep, can't see it being as much as even 55/45 myself0
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Superscrooge wrote: »What I find remarkable is how much agreement there is that the best result for the country is to remain in the EU.
Has there ever been a previous occasion when the General Secretary of the TUC and the leaders of all the major political parties have been in agreement about the best way to vote?
All former Prime Ministers support 'Remain' as do 90% of economists.
MI5, MI6, ACPO all say we are safer remaining in the EU
Environmentalists, Scientific and Business Community are all strongly in favour of 'Remain.
I'm not aware of any world leader, apart from possibly Vladimir Putin, that thinks Brexit is sensible?
He sees the EU as a threat to the Russian Federation's trading area and sphere of influence.
Economics is a dismal science. Most thought the ERM was good, and that we should have joined the Euro. Both were bad. Most did not see the great crash of 2008. The IMF said Osborne's cuts would decimate the economy. Now you might not agree with the cuts, but you cannot deny the IMF were wrong. There is a tendency to follow the herd, and if pays off in times of calm, but it won't prevent catastrophe, and I feel the EU is heading for catastrophe, or at least not the rosy future foreseen by some. It is based on idealism not pragmatism. Of course this is an opinion, and we will see if I was wrong in 10 years time.0 -
Exactly the same as in my house.Mr_Costcutter wrote: »I do agree with you. After last night's debate I've been left feeling that whatever the country decides it will be like opening Pandora's box. My wife will be voting 'remain' and I will be voting 'leave'. We have had some heated discussions lol0 -
I'm expecting it to be about 60/40 to remain although that's based on nothing more than that undecided people always tend to move towards the "status quo" even though as an earlier poster commented that remaining will not necessarily be the "status quo" for long the way things are moving in terms of migration and the economic chaos in some countries.chockydavid1983 wrote: »Yep, can't see it being as much as even 55/45 myself0
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