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Compensation for delayed flights Discussion Area
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# 3121
gmar96
Old 07-12-2012, 4:53 AM
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Default Bust airlines

Hi in 2008 OasisHongKong went into admin...I was one of the passengers that day stranded but at least in the UK. I would be right to assume that this ECJ rule doesn't apply here? i know it's a bit daft cos the airline's been bust for 5 years so who pays?... but just confirm to me please anyone.

Gman

Last edited by gmar96; 07-12-2012 at 4:58 AM.
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# 3122
johnisworried
Old 07-12-2012, 6:57 AM
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Hi all,

I wrote to Easyjet four years ago because my flight was delayed and I missed a gig I was being paid for. I remember being over three hours late, and the title of the email I sent even reads "This flight was over three hours late..."

So I wrote to them recently, after looking at flightstats.co.uk. This is what the flightstats website shows:

Scheduled departure: 7:45pm
Scheduled arrival: 11:15pm
Actual departure: 10:33pm (runway)
Estimated arrival: 11:42pm (runway)

Easyjet responded:

"We can confirm that the details regarding your booking clearly state that the original 'Scheduled time of Arrival' was 23.15 local time / 21.12 UTC. The Actual time of arrival was 01.41 local / 23.41 UTC. Therefore, your flight was delayed by 2 hours and 26 minutes."

Doesn't really make much sense does it? Does runway time not include taxi-ing? Any thoughts? I was definitely leaving the plane three hours after we were meant to arrive.
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# 3123
poet123
Old 07-12-2012, 9:20 AM
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Can anyone give me the other flight checker site links aside from Flighstats please. I had forgotten about a delayed flight to Newquay earlier this year but cannnot find the actual dealy time on the flightstats database.
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# 3124
missyhol
Old 07-12-2012, 10:06 AM
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Default Thompson flights/First Choice 12+ hour delay

Hi there - I currently have an issue open with First Choice Holidays. As well as experiencing a couple of niggles in the resort (which should be sorted out soon). Our plane was used as a replacement for the previous days scheduled flight as that plan had technical difficulties. We were told in the resort that we would have a 12 hour delay and instead of leaving the resort at 10am for a 4pm flight we left at 10pm for a 4am flight which wasn't too bad. However, it seems that the airport shuts down from 11pm as , nothing was open, the kids were tired so trying to pass 5hrs away in an empty closed airport was rather trying! The plane that was sent to take us back to Gatwick from Cancun arrived considerably earlier in the day, but because the flight attendants could only work a certain amount of hours, the delay was due to them needing rest and recuperation. The plane they sent as a replacement was a short haul plane so an 8 hr flight in even more cramped seats was less than satisfactory (especially when we had already paid for an upgrade - which we should be receiving a refund for). I contacted first choice at the beginning of November and saw the EU ruling so added that to my list of requests for compensation. I have just chased today and have been told that it is at least an 8 week delay and Thompson/First Choice are currently in negotiations with their legal team to understand what they may offer. I did say that it appears that the levels of compensation seem to be non negotiable as they operate in a tiered format. So I have already waited 4 weeks and have told them that I expect to be dealt with shortly regarding this. - Watch this space!
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# 3125
roborts
Old 07-12-2012, 10:50 AM
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Default Tcx 2018

ECJ have been back in touch. They don't deal with breaches of their rulings.

Still waiting for TC to reply to my last email.

Paul
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# 3126
Mark2spark
Old 07-12-2012, 11:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by roborts View Post
ECJ have been back in touch. They don't deal with breaches of their rulings.

Still waiting for TC to reply to my last email.

Paul
I read your first response but thought it was a spelling error, and that you had meant CAA instead of ECJ.
After you have the 2nd fob off, perhaps contact the CAA?
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# 3127
Mark2spark
Old 07-12-2012, 11:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by missyhol View Post
Hi there - I currently have an issue open with First Choice Holidays. As well as experiencing a couple of niggles in the resort (which should be sorted out soon). Our plane was used as a replacement for the previous days scheduled flight as that plan had technical difficulties. We were told in the resort that we would have a 12 hour delay and instead of leaving the resort at 10am for a 4pm flight we left at 10pm for a 4am flight which wasn't too bad. However, it seems that the airport shuts down from 11pm as , nothing was open, the kids were tired so trying to pass 5hrs away in an empty closed airport was rather trying! The plane that was sent to take us back to Gatwick from Cancun arrived considerably earlier in the day, but because the flight attendants could only work a certain amount of hours, the delay was due to them needing rest and recuperation. The plane they sent as a replacement was a short haul plane so an 8 hr flight in even more cramped seats was less than satisfactory (especially when we had already paid for an upgrade - which we should be receiving a refund for). I contacted first choice at the beginning of November and saw the EU ruling so added that to my list of requests for compensation. I have just chased today and have been told that it is at least an 8 week delay and Thompson/First Choice are currently in negotiations with their legal team to understand what they may offer. I did say that it appears that the levels of compensation seem to be non negotiable as they operate in a tiered format. So I have already waited 4 weeks and have told them that I expect to be dealt with shortly regarding this. - Watch this space!
IMO it's not worth filing a MCOL just yet, might as well wait for the response from FC.
Seeing what they 'may' offer, might be a deal of travel vouchers at 10% excess of the statutory table of compensation, similar to what Monarch are offering (see their claim form on Blindmans link).
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# 3128
Mark2spark
Old 07-12-2012, 11:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by johnisworried View Post
Hi all,

I wrote to Easyjet four years ago because my flight was delayed and I missed a gig I was being paid for. I remember being over three hours late, and the title of the email I sent even reads "This flight was over three hours late..."

So I wrote to them recently, after looking at flightstats.co.uk. This is what the flightstats website shows:

Scheduled departure: 7:45pm
Scheduled arrival: 11:15pm
Actual departure: 10:33pm (runway)
Estimated arrival: 11:42pm (runway)

Easyjet responded:

"We can confirm that the details regarding your booking clearly state that the original 'Scheduled time of Arrival' was 23.15 local time / 21.12 UTC. The Actual time of arrival was 01.41 local / 23.41 UTC. Therefore, your flight was delayed by 2 hours and 26 minutes."

Doesn't really make much sense does it? Does runway time not include taxi-ing? Any thoughts? I was definitely leaving the plane three hours after we were meant to arrive.
I agree, it doesn't make much sense. But it appears that the time that the wheels touch the ground is the defining moment.
Without some other sort of evidence you appear to be stuck.
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# 3129
rusty frog
Old 07-12-2012, 12:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark2spark View Post
I agree, it doesn't make much sense. But it appears that the time that the wheels touch the ground is the defining moment.
Without some other sort of evidence you appear to be stuck.
Flightstats appear to give arrival times as "gate" times which are more realistic.

However, if we plan to use the above as part of our evidence, will it not confuse things if airline use touchdown?
I started out with nothing and I still have most of it left!

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# 3130
Andy_International
Old 07-12-2012, 2:07 PM
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Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Edinburgh/London
Posts: 3
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So, I have just received this from Monarch as 'advice' before filling out the formal form requesting compensation:

You may not be entitled to compensation despite suffering a delayed flight where the delay was caused by Extraordinary Circumstances. The CAA has issued guidance on the meaning of Extraordinary Circumstances as including but not limited to the following:
a) Aircraft technical faults discovered just before flight or during the flight concerned;
b) Damage to the aircraft caused by:
 Acts of sabotage or terrorism;
 Bird strike;
 Ground incurred damage (i.e. baggage truck, air bridges);
 Lightning strike;
 Pepperpot event (eg large hailstones);
 Severe turbulence;
 Heavy landing; or
 Foreign object damage;
c) Catastrophic engine failure or engine surge;
d) De-pressurisation;
e) Electronic hardware / software ‘conflicts’ which indicate that the aircraft is not fit to fly and which cannot easily be cleared;
f) Hidden manufacturing defect that impinges on flight safety;
g) Meteorological conditions incompatible with the operation of the flight concerned;
h) Security risks;
i) Unexpected flight safety shortcomings;
j) Strikes; or
k) Political instability.

I'm trying to think if there could be a reason why a plane could be delayed that is not included on that list...
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# 3131
jpsartre
Old 07-12-2012, 2:31 PM
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Posts: 1,780
Default

The list is incorrect anyway so it doesn't matter. Is that really a CAA issued guidance list or did Monarch just make that up?

Last edited by jpsartre; 07-12-2012 at 2:45 PM.
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# 3132
Cornball
Old 07-12-2012, 2:45 PM
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Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: London
Posts: 253
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I've been trying to claim from Air Transat for a flight from Toronto to London but they are denying the rule applies to them as they aren't an EU airline. They have a registered UK office listed on Companies House but they say that's just for 'ticket sales'. Do I still have a right to make a claim?
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# 3133
jpsartre
Old 07-12-2012, 3:37 PM
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The relevant question is whether they're an EU community carrier or not. Since Air Transat is a Canadian airline I can't imagine they are, in which case they are correct that the EU regulations do not apply to your flight.
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# 3134
rusty frog
Old 07-12-2012, 4:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Andy_International View Post
So, I have just received this from Monarch as 'advice' before filling out the formal form requesting compensation:

You may not be entitled to compensation despite suffering a delayed flight where the delay was caused by..........................

I'm trying to think if there could be a reason why a plane could be delayed that is not included on that list...
If you can think of a reason, Monarch would be grateful if you would contact them in order it could be included in their next standard fob off letter!
I started out with nothing and I still have most of it left!

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# 3135
Cornball
Old 07-12-2012, 4:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jpsartre View Post
The relevant question is whether they're an EU community carrier or not. Since Air Transat is a Canadian airline I can't imagine they are, in which case they are correct that the EU regulations do not apply to your flight.
Thanks, that's the bit I'm trying to suss. From their own website it states:

As an airline operating flights from airports within the European Union, Air Transat is subject to the provisions of European Community Regulation 261/2004. This directive establishes a legal framework for the compensation and care of passengers by airlines in the event of overbooking/denied boarding, flight cancellations and long delays.

In November 2009, the European Court of Justice issued a ruling that extended financial compensation obligations to long delays as well.
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# 3136
jpsartre
Old 07-12-2012, 4:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cornball View Post
Thanks, that's the bit I'm trying to suss. From their own website it states:

As an airline operating flights from airports within the European Union, Air Transat is subject to the provisions of European Community Regulation 261/2004. This directive establishes a legal framework for the compensation and care of passengers by airlines in the event of overbooking/denied boarding, flight cancellations and long delays.

In November 2009, the European Court of Justice issued a ruling that extended financial compensation obligations to long delays as well.
Air Transat is subject to EU261 but only for flights departing from the EU (again, assuming they're not a community carrier).
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# 3137
Cornball
Old 07-12-2012, 5:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jpsartre View Post
Air Transat is subject to EU261 but only for flights departing from the EU (again, assuming they're not a community carrier).
Okay, thanks again. So going a bit more into what is a community carrier:

A community carrier is defined in article 2(c): "'Community carrier' means an air carrier with a valid operating licence granted by a Member State in accordance with the provisions of Council Regulation (ECC) No 2407/92 of 23 July 1992 licensing of air carriers"

From the Air Transat website again:

Air Transat holds licenses to operate scheduled flights between Canada and the following countries: the European Union (representing its 27 member states)

I guess I search for info on that now.
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# 3138
Cornball
Old 07-12-2012, 7:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Centipede100 View Post
You have no claim against Air Transat for a delayed flight from Toronto to London.
Air Transat have EU based branches of their company and I bought the tickets from their EU based branch. I'm not giving up yet, doing more research. But thanks.
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# 3139
gmar96
Old 07-12-2012, 7:46 PM
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Hi all (particularly Centipede),

I just received a second denial letter from Qatar in which their response to my Notice of Intention is ...

'if you wish to proceed with any court action, then we would of course provide a full and valid defence to the court.'

Additionally they highlight that I was offered travel vouchers for the 2 passengers in question and used them. Would I be wrong in assuming that that fact does not preclude me from making a subsequent claim?

Seems they think it does because...'we therefore view this matter as closed and regret that we are unable to assist you further in respect of this claim.'

All correspondence now with a member of the CAA because I am trying to exhaust every avenue before taking this to court.

Best of Luck

Gman
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# 3140
stevemarr
Old 07-12-2012, 8:13 PM
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Posts: 4
Default thomas cook flight delay compensation

As i mentioned previously-i had a 5 hr delay on 19th june 2012-blocked toilet-on all accounts length of delay etc it qualifies for compensation-the caa seem unable or unwilling to enforce my standard claim-hence as mentioned in multiple replies over last few weeks CCJ seems the only route-it is likely that cases will be settled by thomas cook to avoid CCJS being actually made-as their bankers would probably consider tough action should these start to appear-i worked for a bank for 20 years.There is a set proceedure to do this yourself,or you could take up the advice mentioned many times of checking if you have legal expenses cover.I note that some have had success with Easyjet and no doubt their stronger financial position and hope of subsequent goodwill has influenced their decisions.
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