Debate House Prices


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Crunch time for council workers’ golden pensions

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  • SuzieSue wrote: »
    What don't you get? The UK is bankrupt. We don't have any money left. All we have is debt. The sooner people realise this, the better.

    Well regardless of whether you think the UK is bankrupt or not - you still need a public sector - Doctors, nurses, teachers, policemen, firemen, prison officers, carers for the elderly etc - the public sector includes a lot of occupations that many (maybe not you) would consider essential services.

    How would you run essential services without a public sector or would just privatise the lot? I am interested. Or is it just some parts of the public sector you don't like?

    People at the moment seem to be quite happy to buy our debt - I suppose we may have to worry when they stop. The last time I looked we weren't called Argentina.
  • chucky
    chucky Posts: 15,170 Forumite
    10,000 Posts Combo Breaker
    carolt wrote: »
    It's interesting - MSE readers overwhelmingly disagree with you, as evidenced by last week's poll on the NHS - it may not be perfect, but overall, we're basically quite happy with it.

    just to upset bendix... i took a look at the MSE polls and the large majority of MSE readers disagree with you too Carol about house prices... 69% expect them to increase or stay the same over the next year
    http://www.moneysavingexpert.com/poll/25-08-2009/is-the-house-price-crash-over
  • Davesnave
    Davesnave Posts: 34,741 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 10,000 Posts Name Dropper Photogenic
    carolt wrote: »
    No thanks, I'm a bit courgetted-out, thanks. Our allotment turned up trumps, with all our courgettes turning into marrows within a week of heavy rain.

    How do you make courgette flapjacks, out of interest? Anything that doesn't involve tomato sauce.... :)


    Your wish is my command:

    http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showpost.html?p=24314409&postcount=474

    or, not flapjack, but close:

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/food/recipes/database/courgettebread_85718.shtml

    On topic....us public servants may have to actually eat this stuff if donald gets his way...;)
  • SuzieSue
    SuzieSue Posts: 4,109 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 1,000 Posts Name Dropper I've been Money Tipped!
    Well regardless of whether you think the UK is bankrupt or not - you still need a public sector - Doctors, nurses, teachers, policemen, firemen, prison officers, carers for the elderly etc - the public sector includes a lot of occupations that many (maybe not you) would consider essential services.

    How would you run essential services without a public sector or would just privatise the lot? I am interested. Or is it just some parts of the public sector you don't like?

    People at the moment seem to be quite happy to buy our debt - I suppose we may have to worry when they stop. The last time I looked we weren't called Argentina.
    We need a public sector but they have to realise that their pension schemes are unsustainable just as the private sector has.
  • bendix
    bendix Posts: 5,499 Forumite
    carolt wrote: »
    What does she do? Maybe she is unnecessary - does she think so, out of interest?

    I don't think it follows, however, that all public sector work is therefore unnecessary or overpaid.


    The joy of the public sector is that the more unnecessary a role or department is, the more self-important it feels.

    We call it the Public Sector Paradox.
  • Davesnave
    Davesnave Posts: 34,741 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 10,000 Posts Name Dropper Photogenic
    A point I'd just throw in for devilment is that some who work in the public sector believe they are making a significant difference by staying there, rather than moving into the more comfortable private zone. I know teachers & dentists who have stayed with the local authority or NHS when they could have had an easier time elsewhere.

    These are not no-hopers, but decent professionals. However, treat them badly enough, and it may be the no-hopers that you have left to run your services.
  • SuzieSue
    SuzieSue Posts: 4,109 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 1,000 Posts Name Dropper I've been Money Tipped!
    Davesnave wrote: »
    A point I'd just throw in for devilment is that some who work in the public sector believe they are making a significant difference by staying there, rather than moving into the more comfortable private zone. I know teachers & dentists who have stayed with the local authority or NHS when they could have had an easier time elsewhere.

    These are not no-hopers, but decent professionals. However, treat them badly enough, and it may be the no-hopers that you have left to run your services.

    No-one is saying anyone should be treated badly. Of course, the public sector needs to attact and retain the best staff. In the past this meant that the public sector had to offer a final salary pension scheme as this was what was available in the private sector. This is no longer the case.
  • SuzieSue
    SuzieSue Posts: 4,109 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 1,000 Posts Name Dropper I've been Money Tipped!
    SuzieSue wrote: »
    No-one is saying anyone should be treated badly. Of course, the public sector needs to attact and retain the best staff. In the past this meant that the public sector had to offer a final salary pension scheme as this was what was available in the private sector. This is no longer the case.

    If the public sector is having trouble attracting staff, it will have to offer a higher salary, but this should not include a taxpayer guaranteed pension.
  • SuzieSue wrote: »
    We need a public sector but they have to realise that their pension schemes are unsustainable just as the private sector has.

    Some schemes I understand are funded, others are partially funded and others aren't funded at all, and I agree with you something has to be done about it - but you can't just scrap them with immediate effect - I wouldn't have thought any government would try to do that - more likely over time move towards funded schemes. Some people have paid into schemes most of their working lives - after Maxwell, private schemes have a compensation scheme funded by the gov't. (I could be wrong about the funding - but I think it is gov't), so it isn't reasonable to think public sector employees should be treated any differently.

    I'm not a public sector worker, but I did contract for a couple of years to a gov't agency - and I know about some of the waste that goes on. There were a lot of very demotivated people there - mainly caused through poor management, and in quite a few instances poor working practices - TBH, sometimes it was like a bottomless pit of money - it was a real eye opener. But it wasn't the fault of the ordinary worker - they. like anyone else did as they were told.

    They did start to tighten up on things when I was there, and get rid of some of the dead wood, I had to get rid of a couple of people for poor performance. They had been moved into jobs that they were totally unsuited to and were unable to cope. Again not their fault - but they lost their jobs.
  • Old_Slaphead
    Old_Slaphead Posts: 2,749 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 1,000 Posts Combo Breaker
    carolt wrote: »
    all the public sector staff I know are (a) necessary and (b) underpaid.

    Can I borrow your rose tinted spectacles when you've finished with them?

    All public sector staff underpaid ??? - you're having a laugh, surely. Remind me what teachers, doctors, policemen etc etc are paid.

    One million private sector workers are on national minimum wage - NO public sector employee is (and that's before you add in pensions, job security, generous holidays etc). They're the ones that are underpaid.
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