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Bulk LPG - Cheapest suppliers / supply route?

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  • LittleVermin
    LittleVermin Posts: 737 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 500 Posts Name Dropper Combo Breaker
    edited 23 December 2011 at 3:56AM
    Back in October I posted the chart from the OFT off-grid energy report. The chart showed Brent crude and Propane prices in $/tonne for 06-11. (here).

    I also quoted the OFT report:

    "Suppliers told us that they do not pass on every increase and decrease in input costs, instead trying to minimise the frequency of price changes to the consumer. Data they have provided show that in both GB and NI, retail prices tend to not fluctuate as much as input costs."

    GrandadRob posted that he was with Flogas for those years and he never had a price decrease - and I only had one in many years with BP (apart from an offer to decrease the price from 53.95 to 42.45ppl if I signed a contract instead of switching to Extra Fuel in May 2010!).

    I have been checking Extra Fuel's prices on their website (http://www.extrafuel.co.uk) each month since December 2009 and HateLPG has very kindly added them to the wholesale propane price (converted into ppl, from $/tonne).

    lpg_price_info.php

    Feel free to download the plot ... and add the prices you've paid. A jolly pastime over Christmas? Before I switched to Extra Fuel they sent me their monthly prices for the previous 12 months - which follow the ANSI curve nicely (i.e. the price was down to about 26ppl in May 2009, when I was paying BP 42.95ppl).

    If anyone wants any info on Extra Fuel, please send me a pm - or contact them direct.
    ..
  • mfmaybe
    mfmaybe Posts: 1,176 Forumite
    Tenth Anniversary 1,000 Posts
    Firstly an update. You may recall that I ended up being tied to F***** due to the illegal siting of the tank, so ended up agreeing to sign a contract to reduce the price, although the contract had no restriction on price rises after the first 6 months. Anyway the bill for gas duly arrived at the previously quoted 73ppl. I sent the contract back, stating (as advised on here) that despite my best efforts to inform F***** of the difference in terms to those verbally discussed before the delivery of gas took place, I now felt I had no choice but to send the contract back. My letter (14th Nov) also asked for a revised bill, down to the 51ppl we discussed. The revised bill never arrived, however at least 2 threatening letters for non-payment have :p. I called them this week (20th December) to ask them to stop threatening me, and to send me the revised bill. They said they didn't have the contract back yet??? So I told the lady on the phone that I sent it several weeks ago. She “checked again” and then said “oh yes, wait a minute, yes we did get it back, yesterday!” Hmmm, isn’t that interesting that it took Royal Mail an amazing 6 weeks to get it to them, but what a lucky co-incidence it arrived the day before I called. Do I sound cynical? It makes me wonder if this is just another tactic, whereby if they hound you enough you will just pay the higher bill.:mad:

    So anyway I told her I wasn’t paying the bill until I received a new one, and she said “it can take a few weeks for the credit to be applied”. That’s fine, the longer I take to pay it, the better as far as I’m concerned.

    All of that aside, we had our new boiler fitted last month (it’s amazing by the way, our ancient old house has actually felt warm!). Our plumber obviously checked everything out and said the regulator on our (underground) tank was looking a bit dodgy. So my other half called F***** this week. 2 guys turned up yesterday to look at it (no appointment, they said they normally just turn up). The first thing he did was lift the lid and say “oh it’s full of water ([STRIKE]and a dead mouse[/STRIKE])”. Ummm yes, we’ve talked to F***** about this several times and they’ve done nothing about it. So he said the reason it is full of water will be because the people who put it in wouldn’t have put suitable drains in, so the water was seeping up from below. Now let me understand this. The tank is like a submarine I presume – a long tube shape underground, with a turret where the regulator, meter etc are, and a hatch cover. It’s this turret that is full of water. Surely if it was seeping UP the way, would that not imply our water table is only about 2 inches below ground level? Bearing in mind this is at the highest point on our property, that would mean when I dig in the garden, all I’d find is water just below the soil level??? I don’t, for clarity, we have normal soil, not a pond for a garden! Anyway when the guy from JGas came to look at the tank (and couldn’t take it on because of the siting under the trees) he said that the turret needed drain holes to allow the water coming in from above to drain away into the soil. This makes much more sense to me because surely water would naturally try to go down, ie with gravity? The F****** guy said that no it must be coming up the way, that there wasn’t a perfect seal, and that basically it was my problem…..So anyway, he said they would go and get a sump pump to clear it out and look at the regulator. That was about 11.30am yesterday – they didn’t return.

    Before he left, he said it was the owner’s responsibility to dig the hole etc, all the supplier did was provide and fit the tank and the pipework. He also said they shouldn’t be filling the tank like that (no s*** Sherlock) and that he’d talk to the office down south. Oh great, so what’s likely to happen now is that they will refuse to give us any more fills due to this issue, maintain it’s entirely my responsibility, but surely we can’t start digging about a tank full of gas….He also kept asking how old the tank was, but I didn’t know. He muttered something about Whoever fitted it – Umm you? – which he said no it wouldn’t have been us. Ummm yes, your office told me you did? What is the relevance of how old the tank is?

    Sorry this is very long, but I am actually finding this thread useful as a way of recording everything that is going on in the saga. I have been holding off taking them to task over the illegal siting. However, if they are going to mutter about this issue now, then I think I will pursue the issue, and get them to move it elsewhere. My concern though, reading some recent posts on here, is that once I officially note it’s in the wrong place that they will cut off supply. I am not clear on exactly who would be responsible for ripping it out and moving it.
    0% card was £1126.91 / Now £1502.37

    AFD March 2/15 NSD March 2/11 :T

    Other debts paid since 1/1/14: £17,005
  • HateLPG
    HateLPG Posts: 464 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture Combo Breaker
    mfmaybe wrote: »
    I am not clear on exactly who would be responsible for ripping it out and moving it.

    Flogas never cease to surprise and amaze me. And I'm surprised that I'm still surprised!

    As far as ripping the tank out and moving it goes, you will be responsible for all ground works and making good, they will do the rest. I would be utterly astonished if they actually *moved* the tank, especially as it is "old" - I would fully expect that you would get a new tank installed and the old one would be taken away for testing and refurbishment or scrap, as appropriate;

    So, you will have to dig (or arrange to have dug) a new hole and pipe trench up to the main shut-off valve and also arrange to have the backfill around the existing tank cleared to the extent that they can remove the old tank. They will then install the new tank and pipework and rip out the old one. They will probably want to supervise the backfill around the new tank, but you will have to pay for that, and they will then disappear, leaving you a great big hole to fill where your old tank was. If Flogas are merely "upgrading" an existing tank, you probably shouldn't have to pay tank installation charges, but underground tanks are always an odd situation, so it is highly probable that they will try to sting you for a few hundred quid for installation charges, especially as they will be installing a new pipe run from the tank to the shut-off valve.

    BUT, if you are going to have to go to all the expense of getting the tank moved anyway, tell Flogas that as far as you are concerned, the contract is null and void, since they knowingly took your business on and offered you a contract under false pretences (i.e. they claimed the tank was OK to keep your business, when patently it was not - for which you have proof)!
  • Hi All

    Just looking for some general advice.

    I am with Calor Gas and have been since installation of my (underground) tank in Feb 2008. Previously when the contract renewal was due they would offer some cash discount or offer to remain with them - not a lot but always overcame the hassle factor.

    However this year no discount or offer so I thought I'd look at switching supplier - on offer is 53.9 p pl (+Vat) & 24.75p per day standing charge (+Vat)

    If I was a "new customer" I would receive 150 quid discount - according to the Calor web site.

    Ant ideas for cheaper - reliable bulk LPG supplier?

    TIA

    Craig
  • LittleVermin
    LittleVermin Posts: 737 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 500 Posts Name Dropper Combo Breaker
    edited 28 December 2011 at 3:11AM
    craigcall wrote: »
    ...I am with Calor Gas and have been since installation of my (underground) tank in Feb 2008. ... on offer is 53.9 p pl (+Vat) & 24.75p per day standing charge (+Vat) ....
    Ant ideas for cheaper - reliable bulk LPG supplier?...

    Hi Craig, and welcome to the forum!

    Where, roughly, are you, please? Have you put your postcode into the UKLPG search and seen what has come up? There may be other suppliers who choose not to pay the UKLPG membership fee! - and also other ways of getting a good deal.

    Having an underground tank can be a bit of a problem if you want to switch.

    Finally, Calor's offer is not so generous - and is good cause to look around, as you've realised!
  • Hi, I moved into a rented house in august and there was 60% gas in our tank which lasted us till end nov when I had 901 litres put back in as I was on 20%. After just three weeks in which each weekend the gas was off as we were away visiting family I am back down to 25%. After phoning the supplier to find out if this was right I'm left stunned at being told what gas I use is my problem and I should take more care in what I use!!!! I have a 10 month old baby and 2 other children which are 6 & 7 and the company now refuse to deliver more gas until I sign a contract. Any advise would be welcoming PLEASE :(
  • longforgotten
    longforgotten Posts: 1,093 Forumite
    edited 31 December 2011 at 6:07PM
    I can only speak about my tank. It's a 1200 litre tank, above ground. When they come to fill it the most they can put in it is up to 85% as there must be some air left in the tank ( don't know why but thats the deal). So if I were you if I had 25% it would mean I had used 60% of gas, 720 litres.

    Unless you have a leak then the gas has been used by your boiler and is part of your rented property. Can you smell gas at all. Best go to the tank and check. Although I have been told if your tank is low on gas you may smell gas anyway. Last winter the worst month was 15% of the tank ie 180 litres and that was not on 24/7. Also still have an old boiler, at present can afford to pay for extra gas but not for new boiler ........

    Have you had the heating on 24/7 ? Is it an old boiler ? I think checking with your landlord would be a good idea too.

    Sorry I can't help more
  • Hi

    Just a quick update on my previous post - had a look at the web and rang LPG Homeheat who have quoted

    44ppl (I think inc VAT) & 99 (quid) per year (+Vat) standing charge

    This is capped at 6p per 12 months

    I think this is a good deal but does anyone know different? There is 50 pounds free gas if you refer anyone :) so just mention my name if you contact them (Craig Callaghan) :o

    Thanks

    Craig
  • HateLPG
    HateLPG Posts: 464 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture Combo Breaker
    craigcall wrote: »
    ...rang LPG Homeheat who have quoted

    44ppl (I think inc VAT) & 99 (quid) per year (+Vat) standing charge

    This is capped at 6p per 12 months

    Hi Craig, seems a very fair deal to me. I'd check the contract small print for "nasties". Make sure that the 6ppl/12 months is capped for the life of the contract, and that your rights in the event of price increases exceeding this are spelled out.

    The LPG Homeheat contract I have seen also reserves the right to impose a surcharge in the event that the ANSI agreed price increases by more than 20% from that in force at the time the contract was signed, but (provided the surcharge is reasonable, reflects the increase and is removed when the ANSI price falls back within 20% of the original price) I don't think that is an entirely unreasonable clause, and at least it is spelled out in black and white in advance, rather than magically appearing without warning as some suppliers have been known to do in the past.

    On balance, I would go for it based on what you have posted.
  • LittleVermin
    LittleVermin Posts: 737 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 500 Posts Name Dropper Combo Breaker
    edited 5 January 2012 at 12:10AM
    rendor wrote: »
    <snip>
    Have found Listers a refreshing change from Flogas. Pleasant to deal with and honest with their pricing - which they put on the front of their website.
    So it may be worth trying smaller suppliers.

    Hope you're fixed now. Maybe you'd let us know the deal from Listers, please?

    I notice their price - on their website - does not seem to budge for months. It's been

    50 ppl less any discount for higher quantity users

    for a long time! I posted in March that it was 50ppl, though The Hornet posted that he'd had a phone quote of 45ppl at the end of August.

    ..
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