Bulk LPG - Cheapest suppliers / supply route?

rcgood wrote: »

Thanks for the reply, This is the termination paragraph in the agreement.
[FONT=&quot]8. [/FONT][FONT=&quot]TERMINATION[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]a. [/FONT][FONT=&quot]This Agreement shall remain in force for the period specified in the Schedule hereto and will continue thereafter from year to year unless determined by at least 3 month's notice in writing by either party to the other to expire at any time.[/FONT]
They are not allowing 42 days notice?

Rental is £21 plus vat per Quarter. LPG currently at 0.46pence per litre plus vat

Supplier, Sensa OIl & Gas LTD
So far they have not been bad. Prices have followed trends up and down as market fluctuates.

Personally, I'd stick with your current supplier. For a number of reasons:

1. The price (46ppl) is a perfectly fair price in the current market;
2. £84 p.a. tank rental for an underground tank is a good rate;
3. You say prices have gone up AND down? That in and of itself speaks volumes of the supplier - to me it screams fair and honest!
4. They are already supplying you, so there will be no "siting" issues on switching (and apparently many companies won't supply to underground tanks anyway);
5. You say you are pretty happy with them anyway - if it ain't broke, don't fix it!

As far as the contract terms go as of 13 April 2009, no LPG contract was enforceable beyond 2 years, irrespective of when it was signed (i.e. if you had signed a five-year contract on 14 April 2007, you would automatically have been out of contract on 14 April 2009!). Likewise, irrespective of anything written on any contract, after 13 April 2009, the maximum notice-period for terminating an LPG contract became 42 days.

(It actually rather surprises me that you say your 2-year contract renewal is now due.

The term "This Agreement shall remain in force for the period specified in the Schedule hereto and will continue thereafter from year to year unless determined by at least 3 month's notice in writing by either party to the other to expire at any time." would only have been valid for a contract that was issued prior to 13th April 2009 (and was effectively invalidated on that date anyway) and following the issuing of the notice of intention to make an order, by the Competition Commission in October 2008, that sort of clause pretty much dissapeared form contracts anyway! Maybe, being a small company, they are just not that "up-to-date" with their contractual paperwork

If you are so inclined, You can find chapter and verse on this here: http://www.competition-commission.org.uk/inquiries/current/gas/ )

If I were you, I try to politely decline the offer to sign a new contract (if you can), but say that you are quite happy with them and would like to stick with them anyway and see if they will buy into that. They may, however be insistent, but if they are, look for a contract clause that limits any price rise that they may impose in a given period, beyond which you are free to terminate (plenty about that in this thread, but basically, you want a clause something along the lines that if they increase the contract price by more than 3.5ppl in any 6-month period, then you have the right to terminate, subject to providing notice within a reasonable time period etc).

As far as "Sensa Oil and Gas" is concerned, I've never heard of them (and that surprises me - I've done some pretty extensive digging into the LPG supply chain over the last couple of years!), and they do not appear to be members of UKLPG. None of that is a problem - it sounds like they could be a well kept little secret of a small independent supplier.

But following on from what LittleVermin posted in respect of acquisitions, especially potential acquisition by DCC and/or Flogas, be aware that most contracts have a standard clause which means that if the company is sold or bought out, you have little option but to stick with the new owners, until or unless they substantially change or breach the terms of the contract. Your first defence against Flogas getting hold of this company would be a clause limiting price increases as detailed above. If you are a long-term customer and have a good relationship with Sensa (and it sounds like you tick the boxes in both those respects), I would suggest that you ask them to include an additional special contract term that releases you from your contract should the company ever be sold to or taken over by DCC, Flogas or one of their subsidiaries. Worst case, they will say no - but if you ask and get it, that is one heck of an insurance policy to have (read back through this thread or look at some of the heating oil threads to see what you could be letting yourself in for if DCC/Flogas did get their grubby little mitts on your friendly independent supplier)

Hope that helps

Tyringham wrote: »

Hi All
New to this so lets start

We live on a country estate and are looking at switching gas suppliers but we have just been informed by our current gas suppliers we cant switch as it turns out that 2 property's have just signed a 2year contract . We have spoken to all of our neighbours and one who is a tenant on a 6 month rolling lease has confirmed that when she moved in march this year she had to sign a gas agreement to get gas .

My question to the forum is two fold
1. Can a tenant on a short lease sign a 2year contact and hold the entire estate to that agreement
2. Does the gas supplier have to inform the person in writing that by signing the agrement they are binding the entire estate to their contract period .

Any help would be appreciated

Thanks

Hi Tyringham - and welcome to the forum.

Can I ask which is the supplier, please? And how much are you paying?

I hope someone can answer your questions.

The Competition Commission made orders - and this is the one for metered estates (but you probably know about this already):
http://www.competition-commission.org.uk/inquiries/current/gas/notice_order_metered_estates.pdf

Switching suppliers for contracts for bulk LPG on metered estates were identified as still a problem in the recent OFT report.

Have you talked to Trading Standards? For some people they have proved useless but a few have got help (when their query has been referred on).

This post (about Flogas) may be useful:
http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showpost.php?p=37031086&postcount=221

and a follow-up: http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showpost.php?p=37419214&postcount=243

And here's a post from someone who took extreme measures to escape from Calor (but probably not relevant):
http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showpost.php?p=24409983&postcount=108

...

rcgood wrote: »

These are the increases and decreases on my LPG supplier since 2009. All plus VAT
2 Oct 2009 = 0.35p/l
27 Feb 2010 = 0.37 p/l
16 Nov 2010 = 0.41 p/l
01/02/2011 = 0.43 p/l
01/03/2011 = 0.53p/l
29/06/2011 = 0.48.5 p/l
01/08/2011 = 0.46 p/l

btw, its always Flogas that deliver. i suspect Sensa are bulk buying from Flogas.

Quite fascinating. Thank you!

Given that Sensa will be adding some degree of margin to these prices, do we take it that Flogas has extended some kind of "charitable status" to Sensa, and are supplying them at below cost?

Or do we conclude that this is proof-positive of the degree of rank and indefensible profiteering that Flogas (the friendly LPG company!) are delivering to their own customers?

On THEIR margins, I would blooming well expect them to be friendly!

Sounds like i have a good deal at the moment,:j

Tyringham wrote: »

Hi all

Does anyone have a metered estate agreement from flogas or any other supplier that states you can only switch suppliers if all residents are out of contract and also states that by signing this agreement you are binding all the residents on your metered estate into your contract period .

My last question is if my neighbour signed a week after me is his contract period also mine as I can only move once his contract expires .. Therefore his contract supersedes mine and thus his contractual period is the only binding period we are all tied into ....

Several people on metered estates have posted in the past. I suggest you try a search ("Search this thread" and use "estate") and then send private messages to whoever you turn up.

I'm sorry that I don't have any other stored links to posts about metered estates but I'll try to dig out other threads you could search. Here are two: squelch41 and sk240

squelch41 asked the forum about buying out a contract - might be of interest: http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showpost.php?p=32140571&postcount=1

Another tack: have you thought about contacting your MP and mentioning the unfair contract legislation - and the fact that OFT mentioned that there had been very little extra switching of supplier to metered estates since the CC Orders - unlike the increase for people with their own tank? Several MPs were on the ball the other day in Parliament - see HateLPG's posts.

..