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    • jamint
    • By jamint 16th May 18, 2:07 PM
    • 26Posts
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    jamint
    Co-own a house with my ex-gf - 'moving new gf in' questions
    • #1
    • 16th May 18, 2:07 PM
    Co-own a house with my ex-gf - 'moving new gf in' questions 16th May 18 at 2:07 PM
    Hi all, slightly unusual situation so please bear with me!

    Me and my ex g/f (together 12 years) bought a house together 5 years ago. We split up 2 years ago and she moved out at this time and into a house with her new partner (whilst she didn't "cheat" on me, she definitely "set the ground work" until I overheard a questionable conversation with him one morning).

    Despite this we kept on good terms (I know, sounds crazy, but at the time I found out about the 'affair' I was ready to tell her I wanted out, so it sort of suited me, especially as it turned out I would stay in the house). She agreed at this point to pay half the mortgage and I'd pay the other half. We are both paying around 280 each, the mortgage being 560. This has continued for the past 2 years.

    I'm now at the stage where I want to move my new g/f into the house, living in the main bedroom with me of course, and out of courtesy I told this to my ex. She has now turned around and asked for my current g/f to pay her 350 a month, citing rental conditions and her feeling like she'd be "subsidising" my current g/fs living conditions if she were to move in.

    My current g/f is not happy with the suggested amount - not only because emotionally she is wrangling with the idea of moving in to my old house anyway, but it's a lot of money (as she currently lives in a family home nearby, rent free - some people eh!?) but it's also that it is more than the mortgage she is paying. We would rent elsewhere but it would literally add around 1200 to our joint expenditure.

    Effectively, we feel she's asking too much. Because me and my ex are on good terms I have tried arguing the case that this is more than the mortgage, and whether we could agree on something a little lower. She has so far said this is not enough - she has her own rental costs to pay, and that all her friends and family believe she should be asking for way more - up to the rental value (which, for the house, is 950 a month).

    Apologies again for the lengthy backstory but it is all relevant I feel. I am now at the point where legally I'm not sure where I stand, or whether to force the issue.

    You are probably all wondering why we didn't sell the house at the time of split - this was mainly because we live near the Crossrail development so knew house prices would increase, so selling up didn't make sense, and that at the time I was happy to remain in the house whereas my ex g/f didn't.

    Most of the advice I've had is "sell up" which is all well and good (and I do see benefits to) but due to Crossrail not having arrived yet we were happy waiting for another year, before this scenario reared its ugly head. I could really do with some advice apart from people suggesting this, if or where possible. Even advice to if you think I'm being reasonable/unreasonable. Many thanks
    Last edited by jamint; 16-05-2018 at 2:53 PM.
Page 1
    • Lokolo
    • By Lokolo 16th May 18, 2:12 PM
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    Lokolo
    • #2
    • 16th May 18, 2:12 PM
    • #2
    • 16th May 18, 2:12 PM
    How much would she be charged if she was a lodger elsewhere? I suspect it would be a lot more.

    I don't see how your ex would be subsidising your current partner if she pays less. Unless your ex is also paying bills and repairs as well?

    Why don't you gin the middle and say 315?

    Like you've had, the advice is to sell up. I am in agreement with that. The arguments have started before your current partner has moved in, it's only going to get worse.
    • lena_halo
    • By lena_halo 16th May 18, 2:17 PM
    • 150 Posts
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    lena_halo
    • #3
    • 16th May 18, 2:17 PM
    • #3
    • 16th May 18, 2:17 PM
    Sounds messy! I find it amazing that your ex continued to pay for a house she wasn't living in?! I don't know anyone who would do that! I hope you know that if she changed her mind she could just move back in one day and you would be powerless to do anything about it!!

    Definitely sell up. You should have sold a long time ago in my opinion. Then you and your new gf can either rent together or buy together with no complications and no emotional fuss Sometimes money isn't everything.

    Good luck!
    • PasturesNew
    • By PasturesNew 16th May 18, 2:19 PM
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    PasturesNew
    • #4
    • 16th May 18, 2:19 PM
    • #4
    • 16th May 18, 2:19 PM
    Ultimately this is something you'll have to agree on - no matter what we say ...

    As she owns half the house and is paying for half of it, she could, say, get her own "house share" person in there at a higher rate.....

    You can't see the amount she pays to the mortgage each month as being all your new gf should have to pay to move in, that'd be unfair to your ex.

    I think the 350 is perfectly reasonable and "fair" in the circumstances, she's not appeared to be greedy at all ... and she is taking on a certain amount of "risk" with the half house she owns by saying yes to your new preferred agreement.

    As you say, if you moved out it'd cost you and your new gf a lot more to rent. As your ex's friends point out, she could ask for a LOT more.

    On balance, I'd suggest that 350 is the correct and very very fair amount your new gf should contribute. And you should take the stance of "thanking your ex for being so reasonable over this awkward change to your needs and lifestyle".
    • gettingtheresometime
    • By gettingtheresometime 16th May 18, 2:52 PM
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    gettingtheresometime
    • #5
    • 16th May 18, 2:52 PM
    • #5
    • 16th May 18, 2:52 PM
    Sounds messy! I find it amazing that your ex continued to pay for a house she wasn't living in?! I don't know anyone who would do that! I hope you know that if she changed her mind she could just move back in one day and you would be powerless to do anything about it!!
    Originally posted by lena_halo
    I'm guessing it's because, as the OP has said, once Crossrail opens their house price would dramatically increase.


    OP - could your ex be protecting her position by asking for the rent in the sense of preventing your gf seeking a claim on the house in the future?


    Of course you could always call her bluff and suggest selling the house now.
    Lloyds OD / Natwest OD / PO CC / Wescott / Argos Card cleared thanks to the 1 debt v 100 day challenge


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    • GoingOn30
    • By GoingOn30 16th May 18, 2:57 PM
    • 101 Posts
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    GoingOn30
    • #6
    • 16th May 18, 2:57 PM
    • #6
    • 16th May 18, 2:57 PM
    Sounds like you want to have your cake and eat it.
    Not selling up so as to capitalise on potential rising prices but also to move your new gf in and have her pay a less than market rate of rent.
    This whole scenario is a disaster waiting to happen and the money you might make on the rising property price will not be worth the grief it is causing/will cause you.
    By all means move your gf in, but 350 a month is a fair amount and I would be getting it on the market and talking with your ex to try and agree what proportions of the proceeds you should each keep (since you've both been paying equally but only you receiving the benefit of a roof over your head).
    • Pixie5740
    • By Pixie5740 16th May 18, 3:00 PM
    • 12,908 Posts
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    Pixie5740
    • #7
    • 16th May 18, 3:00 PM
    • #7
    • 16th May 18, 3:00 PM
    Do you need to live with your girlfriend now? She doesn't seem particularly happy about living in the home you shared with your ex and I'm not surprised at that really. Couldn't you hold off until you've sold the property you own with your ex?

    Certainly you are free to move your girlfriend into the property but as your ex jointly is a joint owner she has just as much right to occupy the property as you do so she might move back in if she is paying rent elsewhere and feels as if she is subsidising you and your current squeeze.
    • quantumlobster
    • By quantumlobster 16th May 18, 3:07 PM
    • 196 Posts
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    quantumlobster
    • #8
    • 16th May 18, 3:07 PM
    • #8
    • 16th May 18, 3:07 PM
    Sell it. It's the least worst of your options.
    • hazyjo
    • By hazyjo 16th May 18, 3:40 PM
    • 10,876 Posts
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    hazyjo
    • #9
    • 16th May 18, 3:40 PM
    • #9
    • 16th May 18, 3:40 PM
    I think you need to stop seeing it as an investment and sell. You will have made enough on it with the mere mention of Crossrail. If you're that into your GF, maybe think about buying together in the same area (if you think it's really going to shoot up in price still).


    Or buy alone if you can afford it and maybe have her move in.


    It will start to get messy - you have no reason to still be in touch with the ex (presumably), and this will just cause grief in the long run for every party.


    Is there a little bit of you (or her) who doesn't want to totally be cut out of the other's life? It's a long time to be with someone and hard to think you'll never have a reason to keep in touch or see each other again.
    2018 wins: Single Malt Whisky; theatre tickets; festival tickets; year of gin(!); shoes
    • sleepymans
    • By sleepymans 16th May 18, 3:46 PM
    • 790 Posts
    • 1,192 Thanks
    sleepymans
    Get new g/f to buy out ex g/f? Cleans it all up
    Goddess
    • mistertea
    • By mistertea 16th May 18, 3:52 PM
    • 17 Posts
    • 26 Thanks
    mistertea
    OP, as this whole situation has been engineered for financial gain, why would you not expect your Ex to get the highest return that she can?
    • FBaby
    • By FBaby 16th May 18, 3:58 PM
    • 16,938 Posts
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    FBaby
    The house has become nothing but an investment to her. She sees your girlfriend as nothing more than a lodger. Realistically, how much would a lodger pay for the share of a house, and then you should divide by two what should go to your ex.

    Ultimately, she doesn't have to agree to anything you suggest but it could get very messy if your girlfriend moves in with your agreement. Not sure the police could do anything. It is very messy though. How about you put the house for rental, share the rental between you and ex and you move with girlfriend elsewhere until you agree with ex it is a good time to sell?
    • Fosterdog
    • By Fosterdog 16th May 18, 3:59 PM
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    Fosterdog
    By moving the new girlfriend in and her paying rent could also give her a beneficial interest in the property which will make things even more complicated in the long run.
    • hazyjo
    • By hazyjo 16th May 18, 4:01 PM
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    hazyjo
    By moving the new girlfriend in and her paying rent could also give her a beneficial interest in the property which will make things even more complicated in the long run.
    Originally posted by Fosterdog
    Very unlikely. Especially if it is such a small amount and she's not contributing to the mortgage or major works.
    2018 wins: Single Malt Whisky; theatre tickets; festival tickets; year of gin(!); shoes
    • Fosterdog
    • By Fosterdog 16th May 18, 4:11 PM
    • 3,990 Posts
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    Fosterdog
    Very unlikely. Especially if it is such a small amount and she's not contributing to the mortgage or major works.
    Originally posted by hazyjo
    Of course it's contributing to the mortgage, even if indirectly, the ex's half of the mortgage is 280 p/m, she wants to charge the new gf 350 p/m. That is paying her half of the mortgage plus 70 leftover. If OP owned the house on his own and moved the girlfriend in and charged her the same she could claim beneficial interests so I wouldn't be so quick to say it's unlikely just because there's another person involved, plus we don't know if she would also be contributing to bills on top of "rent".
    • Tom99
    • By Tom99 17th May 18, 2:09 AM
    • 2,613 Posts
    • 1,781 Thanks
    Tom99
    I think your ex is being very generous, you have lived in her half rent free until now and your new girlfriend is being offered half a house worth 475pm for only 350pm.
    If you want to remain living there and unless you can afford to buy out your ex either by yourself or with your new girlfriend then I would snap up her offer quickly.
    • jamint
    • By jamint 17th May 18, 11:05 AM
    • 26 Posts
    • 9 Thanks
    jamint
    Hi all,

    Thanks for all your input. I've had a few days with this on my mind so apologies again for the mind splurge! I agree with pretty much everyone that the situation is less than ideal (to say the least!). And I also agree with a lot of people that my ex has been more than accommodating over the past 2 years. I also think she's being fair in asking for 350 a month, particularly when considering the previous situation. I do care for her a lot (not "like that" any more) and I don't want to see her out of pocket which is why all this is so difficult.

    Regarding the suggestion my current g/f could buy ex g/f out, unfortunately current g/f wouldn't want to do this - mainly because she wants us, if we buy, to get somewhere "new" and "us" ish which I appreciate. I'm also not super keen to stay in the house long term anyway, there are a few things about the place I'm not especially keen on and after 5 years there I'm happy to call it a day, once that day comes.

    There's quite a bit of back story I didn't really elaborate on - for example in the 2 years I've been in the house I really truly have been prodding my ex on a regular basis to ask things like "what do you want to do about the house" and "don't you think we should just sell it?". She never seemed to want to broach it, citing Crossrail, as well as her apparent comfortableness paying what she is paying and carrying on as is. Her current b/f is quite well off I believe which is probably partly why. He also is supporting his ex g/f apparently, which is a whole different story! But may explain my g/fs rationale a bit too.
    Anyway, I really do feel like I've done as much as I can in terms of mentioning the current set-up to her, checking she's OK with it, especially as I've been essentially in a beneficial position and any action on her part would be to my detriment which never stopped me from prompting her.

    I spoke to my ex on the phone yesterday and we got a lot cleared. She did say that if my current g/f won't agree then let's just leave it be for now, and see where we're at in a month or so. I asked her again whether we should just sell it, she did say she's planning on getting some legal advice in terms of what her/her partner could afford, that they may try and buy me out to rent it, but that she doubts they can afford to.

    As I said the past day or so, having gotten it off my chest, I think I'm coming around to the following:

    - there's nothing I can do if my current g/f won't accept the offer on the table, especially as she's mainly citing that it's the going to my ex which is causing the problem for her in agreeing
    - I believe my ex g/f is being fair in asking for the amount she is asking for

    I'm seeing my g/f tonight so we will discuss potential next options. I guess mainly I'm just a bit disappointed that it could have been win-win all round, but emotions are getting in the way. Equally frustrating is that there is literally nothing I can do about it (except sell up ASAP of course, but if this is going against what my ex (and I guess me) wants then it'll stay as is for now).

    I'll try and update this thread regards to what happens.
    Last edited by jamint; 17-05-2018 at 11:12 AM.
    • Mojisola
    • By Mojisola 17th May 18, 11:10 AM
    • 29,778 Posts
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    Mojisola
    By moving the new girlfriend in and her paying rent could also give her a beneficial interest in the property which will make things even more complicated in the long run.
    Originally posted by Fosterdog
    If the girlfriend was paying jamint rent, that could happen but she would be the ex-gf's tenant so it wouldn't create a beneficial interest.
    • TBagpuss
    • By TBagpuss 17th May 18, 11:12 AM
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    TBagpuss
    Your ex is not being unreasonable. It's unusual that she has been willing to subsidise your living costs for so long, normally it would be reasonable for you to have been paying the full mortgage (effectively 50% as your 'half' and the other 50% as 'occupation rent' for using your ex's half of the property.
    So over 2 years she has effectively supported you to the tune of around 6700.


    You say that the rental value of the property is around 950 a month, so if you are moving someone in, it would not be unreasonable for that person to be paying around 475 a month. That would be split between you and your ex, with you paying the full mortgage as you are occupying the house.

    That would mean that the net amount it would be fair for your partner to pay would be 377. So 350 is pretty generous.

    obviously it is a matter for you ans your partner as to whether she pays that to your ex, or whether you offer to pay the full mortgage and negotiate a different amount as rent form your new partner, or whether your new partner pays a lower figure and you make up the difference.

    Another option, given you and your ex don't want to sell yet, would be to consider renting out your property, and for you and your current partner to rent elsewhere together.

    But f you stay put, paying 350 to your ex is not unreasonable. She could reasonable ask for more.
    • AnotherJoe
    • By AnotherJoe 17th May 18, 11:30 AM
    • 10,553 Posts
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    AnotherJoe
    Get GF 1 & 2 to swap names by deed poll, then GF2 pays GF1 the equity owed, job done.
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