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  • FIRST POST
    • JoshBrux
    • By JoshBrux 3rd May 18, 5:20 PM
    • 22Posts
    • 17Thanks
    JoshBrux
    ParkingEye County Court Defence- I have proof?
    • #1
    • 3rd May 18, 5:20 PM
    ParkingEye County Court Defence- I have proof? 3rd May 18 at 5:20 PM
    Hi guys, let me first just say that i appreciate any and all responses i get to this thread, i dont poat here often, but im in need of some help.

    Yesterday i recieved a County Court Letter from ParkingEye, stating that i owed them 175 due to a parking vioaltion that occured back in December 2017, the incident occured after i failed to put in my registration plate into a terminal when i was going to watch a film at Odeon, causing them to accuse me of staying over my welcome by about 2 and a half hours.

    I did receive one other letter, a 60 fine and the usual picture of my car entering and leaving the premises. To my ignorance, following the advice the last time something similar happened, i just ignored, hoping it would go away.

    I went straight to Odeon today and spoke to the manager asking if anything could be done. We had a fairly long conversation. He mentioned how this was becoming a daily occurence for him since the enforcement started, he mentioned how he now has to get his staff to verbally prompt the customers that come in because the ipads used for signing in your license plate and the signing used to indicate them arent at all obvious.


    Nevertheless, i managed to get him to fire off an rather meekly email to ParkingEye, stating that i had proof i was a paying customer (In the form of a bank statement with a transaction to Odeon cinemas) and asking them "If anything could be done to cancel the fine" but he did say that sometimes they dont even bother to reply.

    I got a copy of the email, headed and everything, which i planned to send as my defence.

    I was just wondering, is this a wise choice? If they still go ahead, would they still be able to? Obviously i have ignored a letter and i do take responsibility for that, but I feel like as i can prove i was a paying customer, ive been wrongly fined in the first place, so would that still stand in court?
    Last edited by JoshBrux; 04-05-2018 at 3:26 PM.
Page 2
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 23rd May 18, 11:08 PM
    • 64,896 Posts
    • 77,472 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    No need, just ignore it.

    I think PE might fold in this case; hope so, even though I would like to see that specific defence tested at a hearing. Must use the above defence again as it says everything I would want it to say if I were in your shoes.

    And lots of people are in your shoes with a PCN churned out without sufficient checks, by an automated (hidden cameras) ANPR system that uses data that clashes with another data processing system (in your case a hidden iPad).

    The same sort of defence (suitably tweaked) would work in a ANPR/PDT machine clash of data sets that I would call an 'unfair and unconscionable conflict of two data processing systems', which used together, work against consumers and fail the mandatory ICO rules for ''evaluation of proportionality and necessity, considering concepts that would impact upon fairness under the first data protection principle''.

    Cases like this are well worth defending and nothing like the 'free retail park' licence to park ''breach'' in Beavis.
    Last edited by Coupon-mad; 23-05-2018 at 11:12 PM.
    • sally6588
    • By sally6588 26th Jul 18, 12:32 PM
    • 26 Posts
    • 11 Thanks
    sally6588
    Cel
    Hi Coupon-Mad

    I have to attend court on the 9th August to defend a case against CEL.

    I parked in a hotel car park that had a reciprocal arrangement with the gym I attended at the time, the day I attended I had no idea about the new system and it was not until I started receiving letters that I was told to ignore (I know big mistake) that as I was aware.

    My future visits to the gym and before I received the fine I was told to enter my reg number in an ipad, which i did. I spoke to the hotel to complain and they just said I had to go through CEL there is nothing they can do.

    The Gym provided proof that I attended and I have asked them to write to me now and tell me a) If CEL still have the contarct at the hotel b) what is there contractual/noncontractual arrangement and c) A very clear statement informing the court that I had authority to park in the car park.

    I have been through mediation whereby they asked for 300 and I refused and now I have a court date and need some help .

    I was not aware about these threads until a lady in the court pointed me this way as she said they are being inundated with these claims.

    hopefully you can help me.
  • hap397
    Sally - you need to start your own thread and not hijack someone's thread otherwise it will get very confusing.

    have you read the Newbies thread about defending court claims?
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 26th Jul 18, 12:57 PM
    • 64,896 Posts
    • 77,472 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    I have to attend court on the 9th August to defend a case against CEL.
    You shouldn't have a hearing at all, had you defended it as per this forum.

    We see no hearings at all. We do see court dates allocated, but they always discontinue when we help someone defend a CEL case.

    So you need to read the second post of the NEWBIES FAQS thread as you are at Witness Statement (WS) and evidence stage and TODAY is 14 days before the hearing...and you know from the hearing letter that you have to get all evidence and your WS in (to the Court and CEL) on time. Thus far you have merely written some random words in defence - no evidence!

    Spend the day doing the WS and evidence (please don't ask how to do that, the NEWBIES thread has examples!) and in fact get it taken tomorrow morning in person to the court, before 1pm. One day late, in the morning, is gonna have to be OK.

    Don't reply here at all please, you need to read what I pointed you to then start your own thread showing us:

    - your defence words

    - your draft WS and evidence (if I am right and you've dropped that ball & need to kick it again).

    NO REPLY HERE AT ALL PLEASE.
    Last edited by Coupon-mad; 26-07-2018 at 1:00 PM.
    • PlasticLegs
    • By PlasticLegs 7th Aug 18, 3:51 PM
    • 1 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    PlasticLegs
    Slightly more complicated...
    I've received a letter from debt recovery plus. Basic story is, my wife went to toys r us and parked up, went round toys r us and, being pregnant, had a sudden urge to use the toilet. There wasn't a customer toilet there so her friend drove her over to burger King. They decided to have some food then head back to shop, meaning in the end she went 19 minutes over her 2 hour time.
    Silly me, I forgot to change the address on the V5 when we moved two weeks later so the fine was sent to our old house (now correct, realised about a month later).
    Issue now is, toys r us are closed so I can't go to them to contact the G24 Ltd. My fault for not changing the V5 so it's not like I could have appealed it initially. Now I'm threatened if I don't pay I'll go to court and it now stands at 160 which, with a baby coming in around 2 weeks, is something I can't afford.
    What advice would you have? The car park has about 150 spaces but if there was ever 20 cars there it would be deemed busy. There are no other stores there, just toys r us.
    • Le_Kirk
    • By Le_Kirk 7th Aug 18, 3:59 PM
    • 3,417 Posts
    • 2,377 Thanks
    Le_Kirk
    You need to read the Newbie section, two clicks back third post down, where you will see all the information you require. After careful, comprehensive & repeated reading of the sticky and if you still have questions, start your own thread and ask your questions(s).
    Never reveal who was driving, the driver parked, the keeper is responding to the NTK
    • KeithP
    • By KeithP 7th Aug 18, 3:59 PM
    • 11,374 Posts
    • 11,907 Thanks
    KeithP
    What advice would you have?
    Originally posted by PlasticLegs
    PlasticLegs, the best advice for you is to read the NEWBIES FAQ sticky thread.

    If, having done that, you still have questions then please start your own thread.

    Trying to address the different issues of two different people can only lead to confusion.
    .
    • Le_Kirk
    • By Le_Kirk 7th Aug 18, 4:00 PM
    • 3,417 Posts
    • 2,377 Thanks
    Le_Kirk
    Need to type quicker Keith! Wow, it ain't often I beat you!
    • Quentin
    • By Quentin 28th Aug 18, 8:37 PM
    • 38,012 Posts
    • 22,107 Thanks
    Quentin
    @Shahidm


    1) You are politely asked not to post until after you have read and understood the advice in the newbies faq thread near the top of the forum


    2) Your questions are all covered in the FAQ


    3) If you have need for further advice you must start your own thread and not hijack someone else's like this


    Please delete your post above which is irrelevant to this thread
    • Shahidm
    • By Shahidm 28th Aug 18, 8:41 PM
    • 1 Posts
    • 4 Thanks
    Shahidm
    Sincerely apologies as i was not aware will have a read and consult if i need further advice and will delete the post thanks
    • Joe Horner
    • By Joe Horner 7th Sep 18, 9:36 PM
    • 4,534 Posts
    • 4,017 Thanks
    Joe Horner
    Since this has been resurrected, is there an outcome to the OP's case? Some interesting arguments put forward by Coupon-mad and it'd be useful to know how well they floated.
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 7th Sep 18, 9:45 PM
    • 64,896 Posts
    • 77,472 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    All done, submitted via email and have recieved the letter of confirmation from the Tribunals service, so now its the 28 day waiting game i guess.
    Originally posted by JoshBrux
    Josh, what happened?

    Surely you are past WS and evidence stage but you didn't come back?
    • JoshBrux
    • By JoshBrux 8th Sep 18, 2:01 PM
    • 22 Posts
    • 17 Thanks
    JoshBrux
    Hi, just a quick update on this, I can't remember exact dates, June time I recieved a rather hefty pack from ParkingEye addressing some of the points in my defense (They seem to have omitted almost every retort that didnt include Beavis), they also asked for proof that I was a patron at the time the alleged breach of contract took place, to which I duely sent them. I haven't heared anything back about this.

    Last month however I did receive a notice from my local court to say a hearing date had been set for late November, I accepted mediation in the hopes something good would come of it, but after ready the forums it does seem it'll be a waste of time. So i guess my next steps are getting witness statements together etc for the actual case.

    I havent sorted anything out yet as i was weighing up the options of how likely it is theyll pull out. I don't want to go to all the effort of getting everything together only for them to not even turn up.
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 8th Sep 18, 2:20 PM
    • 64,896 Posts
    • 77,472 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    So i guess my next steps are getting witness statements together etc for the actual case.
    Your own WS and evidence, not anyone else's unless your case is unusual.

    They will turn up, almost certainly. I am guessing the hefty pack was a reply to something you asked for, and not their actual WS and evidence?
    What date does the court hearing letter say both parties had to exchange and file WS and evidence by?
    • JoshBrux
    • By JoshBrux 8th Sep 18, 8:29 PM
    • 22 Posts
    • 17 Thanks
    JoshBrux
    Your own WS and evidence, not anyone else's unless your case is unusual.

    They will turn up, almost certainly. I am guessing the hefty pack was a reply to something you asked for, and not their actual WS and evidence?
    What date does the court hearing letter say both parties had to exchange and file WS and evidence by?
    Originally posted by Coupon-mad

    Yes, obviously, but this would be the time I also approached the cinema management, asking them to state the remedial steps theyve taken to stop issue happening again right?

    The pack they sent was essentially my defence repeated back to me, with them disputing most of the points I (We) had made, although most of the points were just 'ibid'. It also had some pictures of the carpark with the placement of the signs as well as a copy of ParkingEye vs Beavis. It wasn't something I asked for it just arrived a couple of weeks after I submitted my defence. This is also when they asked for proof that i was a patron of the cinema. Is this unusual?

    I'm not going to reveal the exact date as im aware they read these boards, but the court hearing letter says we need to exchange 14 days before it so i a few months to sort it out.
    Last edited by JoshBrux; 08-09-2018 at 9:13 PM.
    • beamerguy
    • By beamerguy 8th Sep 18, 9:09 PM
    • 9,704 Posts
    • 12,762 Thanks
    beamerguy
    Yes, obviously, but this would be the time I also approached the cinema management, asking them to state the remedial steps theyve taken to stop issue happening again right?

    The pack they sent was essentially my defence repeated back to me, with them disputing most of the points I (We) had made, although most of the points were just 'ibid'. It also had some pictures of the carpak with the placement of the signs as well as a copy of ParkingEye vs Beavis. It wasn't something I asked for it just arrived a couple of weeks after I submitted my defence. This is also when they asked for proof that i was a patron of the cinema. Is this unusual?

    I'm not going to reveal the exact date as im aware they read these boards, but the court hearing letter says we need to exchange 14 days before it so i a few months to sort it out.
    Originally posted by JoshBrux
    The great thing about the new debt protocol is that you
    can dispute anything and everything within 30 days
    It is then up to them to prove otherwise

    With regards to Parking Eye v Beavis, it's fast becoming
    a big joke because ..... parking companies and stupid
    debt collectors are living in clouds

    BEAVIS v PARKING EYE in the Supreme Court
    Often, these powerless debt collectors make reference
    to the Parking Eye/Supreme court case ? They seem to
    think that this is the key for them to extort money from
    you.
    Barry Beavis took Parking Eye to court because he claimed
    the charges were unfair. The court said they were ... and
    that was it. So unless you are claiming that the charge
    was unfair, the Supreme court decision has no bearing
    on you and it's yet more rubbish that debt crawlers use
    RBS - MNBA - CAPITAL ONE - LLOYDS

    DISGUSTING BEHAVIOUR
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 9th Sep 18, 12:45 AM
    • 64,896 Posts
    • 77,472 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    PPCs always throw the Beavis case at people. So what if the facts differ?!

    WS and evidence stage is explained in the NEWBIES thread, with examples.

    • JoshBrux
    • By JoshBrux 19th Sep 18, 2:13 PM
    • 22 Posts
    • 17 Thanks
    JoshBrux
    So plot twist! (Sort of) I've had a letter from ParkingEye, 'Without prejudice (SAVE AS TO COSTS)'

    'We are now in reciept of further information and in an effort to bring this matter to conclusion without further cost to either party we are prepared to accept the sum of 60'

    Is this protocol or damage mitigation? I'm not sure how to interpret it.
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 20th Sep 18, 2:03 AM
    • 64,896 Posts
    • 77,472 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    It sounds like they are thinking of discontinuing. Keep strong!

    Reply by email to:

    enforcement@parkingeye.co.uk

    Headed up (DO NOT ADD TO THIS! Do not use 'without prejudice' in your reply and DO NOT refer to the offer or 60 at all...):

    'Re your latest letter - disclose the further information under a SAR, or discontinue Claim No. xxxxxxxx'.
    I see that ParkingEye are now stating that you have received 'further information' which suggests to me that some individual or company has been discussing my case with you. The only other plausible alternative is that you must have had internal discussions about my case, my personal data and my VRN and the alleged parking event, all of which identify me as a 'data subject'.

    Either way, I wish to see everything related to this 'further information'.

    Under the GDPR, I now require you to provide me with the source of this 'further information' and also show me all emails, case notes, status updates and information held that relates to me/my VRN/the above claim. I am entitled to see all data you are processing and clearly 'further information' is something new.

    You must consider this a SAR.

    As such, as well as the recent data processing I will also require you to divulge all the evidence (that you must have to hand, given the claim in progress) that you intend to rely upon and which involves my data in any form.

    This is clearly not an excessive request, given the claim you are actively processing and my data is very much 'to hand' in your Enforcement team's files. Should you refuse, I will report ParkingEye to the ICO for having secret discussions internally, or with a third party, about me, and failing to disclose that data when required to by the data subject.

    This email is provided to you as open communication and will be produced and relied upon at the hearing, should you proceed further.

    Even if you cancel/discontinue after putting me through months of harassment, I still wish to be furnished with the results of my SAR, including the new 'information' you have processed in whatever form. You have 30 days to supply the SAR information, regardless of whether you discontinue the claim.
    Last edited by Coupon-mad; 20-09-2018 at 2:09 AM.
    • IamEmanresu
    • By IamEmanresu 20th Sep 18, 7:06 AM
    • 3,784 Posts
    • 6,230 Thanks
    IamEmanresu
    As C-M says above is a very good idea.

    Though a WP letter can't be shown to the judge until after the judge has made the decision, if the judge has made a decision and is shown the part that says "further information" - and that was not revealed to the judge prior - then PE would be on a sticky wicket.

    Better to word you letter in reference to a SAR and the overriding objectives within the Civil Procedure Rules.
    If you want to win - avoid losing first. Here are a few examples
    1. Failing to RTFM - the Civil Procedure Rules
    2. Failing to Acknowledge or Defend- See #1
    3. Failing to RTFCL - the Court letters
    4. Template defences that say nothing - See #1
    5. Forgetting about the Witness Statement - See #3
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