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  • FIRST POST
    • UN17ED
    • By UN17ED 27th Jan 18, 9:28 PM
    • 369Posts
    • 121Thanks
    UN17ED
    Sainsburys disability discrimination
    • #1
    • 27th Jan 18, 9:28 PM
    Sainsburys disability discrimination 27th Jan 18 at 9:28 PM
    I would like to say how upset and angry I am over my local Sainsburys who have banned my daughter for no reason and will not speak to any of us as to why she has been banned.

    She has severe ocd and this shop was the only place she would shop, she won't do online shopping and won't let anyone else go shopping for her.

    Shopping for her is a stressful thing because she doesn't like people to go near her trolley, it takes her ages to choose her items as she has to make sure there's nothing wrong with it. She has to wipe every item with cleaning wipes as well and will only use self service and then only certain ones.

    There has been a few incidents when despite all the staff knowing she has it and not to go near her have done and have sprayed cleaning stuff near her food, or gone near her food or even touched it and my daughter has got upset because she will not have any of it.

    We went in there pretty much everyday because of my daughters ocd and would constantly get stared at and we've also been wrongly accused of stealing shopping and also using someone else's bank card.

    I think the thing that led to her being banned was because we went to pay for her shopping and noticed the self service area had been shut down half hour early and when I asked a member of staff why was told because the on duty manager had told them to shut it early because she wanted to leave at 10 when the store shut.

    The member of staff knew us and was understanding about my daughter and always went out of her way to help and explained that they couldn't open any self service tills until next day and that she was really sorry because she knew that my daughter wouldn't be able to eat.

    We had to wait to speak to the on duty manager and on the mean time my daughter went around and put all her items of food back and after she finished the on duty manager spoke to us and said the self service area had been shut because there had been problems with the tills all day, something we know was a lie due ro the member of staff that actually worked in that bit that I previously mentioned.

    It was 3 minutes past 10 when we had finally put certain bits through a normal till and we left the store, my daughter was upset and didn't eat that night.

    I put in a complaint and was told that we didn't get to the self service till according to cctv until 10-10, I replied that was incorrect and that we didn't even go near the self service because I could see from the other end of the sore that it was closed and that it was a quarter to 10 when we had approached the member of staff and this was not near the self service area.

    I tried to say I had a copy of the receipt which showed the time as 3 minutes past 10 but customer services wouldn't budge from the answer of cctv showed 10-10. /I was advised to speak to the store manager and when I eventually got to speak to him after a few days of being told he would ring me back told me that she was banned from the store and would not speak any further about it and hung up.

    This now meant my daughter couldn't eat because of her illness it was the only shop she would get her food from, so I took the complaint to head office explained my daughter couldn't eat and they said they would get back to me,

    It took a week of pressing them to get the answer that nothing had changed and that the ban was upheld and they had nothing more to say. At this point my daughter hadn't eaten for 7 days and as a family we were worried.

    I'm sorry for the long post but it has taken us as a family a long time to be able with help from local health services to get her to shop at another store but it caused a lot of distress and still does because she wants to shop there but she can't because of a ban we have no reason why other than to think it is to do with her severe ocd which is surely discrimination due to disability.
Page 8
    • UN17ED
    • By UN17ED 12th Feb 18, 1:27 PM
    • 369 Posts
    • 121 Thanks
    UN17ED
    A few things

    After being cleaned by your daughter the food products cannot be sold, so whether she wants it in the end or not, if she has cleaned it she needs to pay for it. As in reality by cleaning goods she has damaged them. The only time this wouldn't be the case is when the cleaning product complies with cossh and a member of staff watches to ensure she is only using that product.

    Staff are paid to work, if an area needs cleaning it needs cleaning, if the staff wait everyone will be at work past 10pm catching up for zero pay. That isn't reasonable.

    A cousin has OCD (he has improved slightly in the last few years), we never ever followed any requests as if we did we are confirming his fear and thus making that particular fear worse. He washes all of his food in dilute bleach unless it comes in a sealed bag e.g no air holes in the bag. He also cannot sit in his own living room as he would ruin the stripes he vacuums into the carpets. He was on obsessive compulsive cleaners a few years ago.
    Originally posted by GwylimT
    Again I apologise for making it sound like she wiped and sprayed items at sainsburys, she didn't,

    Staff are paid to work I agree including cleaning the self service area, but they are not paid to stand and gork at us pointing and laughing nor spray cleaning stuff on my daughters shopping as she is putting through the self service till or to purposely touch them items especially knowing she had the illness. And it wasn't just us in the store at 10pm and if we were there that late it was due to the above treatment.

    I'm glad he has become better but for everyone 1 like him there are 100's, no 1000's who suffer daily because not all ocd is the same and what works for one may not work for another.
    • UN17ED
    • By UN17ED 12th Feb 18, 1:31 PM
    • 369 Posts
    • 121 Thanks
    UN17ED
    Sainsbury's would ban anyone (with or without a disability) who behaved the way the daughter does so there is no discrimination.
    Originally posted by Labsuper
    What behaviour is that?
    • baza52
    • By baza52 12th Feb 18, 1:41 PM
    • 2,148 Posts
    • 2,232 Thanks
    baza52
    What behaviour is that?
    Originally posted by UN17ED
    The behaviour you led everyone to believe she was using. (wiping products etc.)

    You come across as very argumentative and im sure there is more to the issue with Sainsburys than you have told us.

    Why did the member of staff need to touch her groceries at the till and why did they spray her stuff?
    • UN17ED
    • By UN17ED 12th Feb 18, 1:42 PM
    • 369 Posts
    • 121 Thanks
    UN17ED
    OP, would it not be easier if YOU did her shopping and then your daughter could clean everything once it was home?

    I can understand your daughter not wanting customers and staff around her if her OCD is bad but i can also understand the shop wanting to be sure that no items are being concealed and stolen. A scenario like thins would leave them open to theft.

    What would you do if you were the manager of this store? how would you handle the situation?
    Originally posted by baza52
    As we were being watched as we were going around the store both by staff on the shop floor and upstairs through the cctv then they would be able to see that no items were being concealed or hidden and at anytime they could have asked and we would have gladly let them look in her trolley and pockets etc but it would mean my daughter would have to empty her trolley and start again.

    If I was the manager I would be unhappy that staff who are being paid to work were instead belittling customers even after being made aware she suffered a severe mental illness and would have made the shopping trip for my daughter as stress free as possible but I was trained in customer service and would be ashamed that staff were putting the name of the company in a bad light.
    • UN17ED
    • By UN17ED 12th Feb 18, 1:45 PM
    • 369 Posts
    • 121 Thanks
    UN17ED
    It clearly does sound as if the OP's daughter has a pretty severe condition and isn't really getting that much help in dealing with it - and this is probably stressful for the OP as well. But it isn't reasonable to expect a shop to accommodate every aspect of the behaviour - and when that may be impacting on other customers, it can't be ignored.
    Originally posted by NBLondon
    What does it matter to another customer if my daughter doesn't just pick up the first item on a shelf and move on?

    I don't know what other behaviour wouldbe deemed as impacting other customers.
    • theonlywayisup
    • By theonlywayisup 12th Feb 18, 1:54 PM
    • 12,213 Posts
    • 8,250 Thanks
    theonlywayisup
    I thought this thread had died a death. I re read the OP and have read the last page or two. How the story seems to change.....
    • UN17ED
    • By UN17ED 12th Feb 18, 1:55 PM
    • 369 Posts
    • 121 Thanks
    UN17ED
    OMG, marliepanda, you have reminded me of something funny at a time when I really need to laugh. Thank you. It goes something like this:

    (Joyce Summers to her daughter, Buffy)
    "You want waffles?"

    Buffy
    "No, but if you want them, I'll help you make them."

    Joyce
    "No, they only don't have calories when I make them for you."

    (Buffy looks confused)

    To the OP, if we all stopped and considered just how filthy supermarket (and probably all other) food, certainly food packaging, is we would all stop eating. Chicken packaging is covered in salmonella, for instance; how can it not be? Panic not, people, so long as normal hygiene is observed at home and meat is cooked properly, there is no risk to healthy individuals. It is what soap and water is for.

    Does anyone really think supermarket products are stored any differently to products bought online? They are kept in warehouses, not in sterile, clinical conditions and no, supermarket workers do not wash their hands after loading up a pallet and before stacking a (thoroughly sterilised) shelf (I've been one)

    All the dust and dirt from the warehouse is right there, on the shelves, on the food whether it comes from a store or is bought online from a warehouse. It could even be argued that fewer people have handled it if bought online: It did not have to be loaded and unloaded yet again before being bought and transported back to a customer's home.

    (Text removed by MSE Forum Team)
    Originally posted by Smodlet

    Apart from stating the bloody obvious does that make any difference to people like my daughter who suffer with this illness?

    Indeed it would make a difference in a negative way so I don't think I will pass that information on to her as it's bad enough as it is.
    • UN17ED
    • By UN17ED 12th Feb 18, 2:01 PM
    • 369 Posts
    • 121 Thanks
    UN17ED
    Hmm... I can imagine that happening. I'm not OCD but I would be a little miffed if a hasty colleague didn't take enough care to respect my personal space when cleaning the tills. Also if they came poking about in my shopping.

    Taking your version on face value,It sounds like her OCD made her over react, not react unreasonably.
    Originally posted by biscit
    Over react? Any reaction would be when we were out of the shop where she would cry because even to a "normal" person like yourself who said you would be miffed.
    • UN17ED
    • By UN17ED 12th Feb 18, 2:08 PM
    • 369 Posts
    • 121 Thanks
    UN17ED
    I think the point about OCD which is being missed slightly is that it's not rational and people can't be reasoned out of it by presenting them with sensible arguments. Most people with OCD are fully aware that what they are doing is over the top and extremely damaging to themselves but the need for the ritual and combatting the repetitive intrusive thoughts can't easily be resisted due to the extreme anxiety that causes.
    I stand by my original post about the supermarket not having to make the adjustments the OP would like, but I'm fairly sure the OPs daughter knows already that what is being said about packaging etc is correct. What she needs is proper help to learn some coping mechanisms.to get back to a semblance of a normal life.
    Originally posted by elsien
    My daughter gets extremely upset and depressed and is saying more about no point in her being alive due to her having this illness, she didn't ask for it and certainly doesn't need the treatment she got from Sainsburys.

    I/we didn't ask for any adjustments, we only asked not to be stared at because it made my daughter worse and for staff not to touch her items. Is that really too much to ask for?
    • UN17ED
    • By UN17ED 12th Feb 18, 2:18 PM
    • 369 Posts
    • 121 Thanks
    UN17ED
    The behaviour you led everyone to believe she was using. (wiping products etc.)

    You come across as very argumentative and im sure there is more to the issue with Sainsburys than you have told us.

    Why did the member of staff need to touch her groceries at the till and why did they spray her stuff?
    Originally posted by baza52
    Not once did I say she was doing that in Sainsburys, I could have written the op better but I have no need to mislead anyone.

    Arguementative because I don't agree with what someone says? If so I'll take that and there's nothing more to the issue and I can't speak for the members of staff that did what they did because I'm not an evil person like that,
    • NBLondon
    • By NBLondon 12th Feb 18, 2:24 PM
    • 1,828 Posts
    • 9,858 Thanks
    NBLondon
    What does it matter to another customer if my daughter doesn't just pick up the first item on a shelf and move on?

    I don't know what other behaviour wouldbe deemed as impacting other customers.
    Originally posted by UN17ED
    Well because your opening post suggested (to many other people as well as me)
    Shopping for her is a stressful thing because she doesn't like people to go near her trolley, it takes her ages to choose her items as she has to make sure there's nothing wrong with it. She has to wipe every item with cleaning wipes as well and will only use self service and then only certain ones.
    Originally posted by UN17ED
    that your daughter felt the need to wipe every item she handled whether she chose to buy it or not - hence if it goes back on the shelf it could impact the next customer to handle it (what if they have issues as well?) or would not be saleable.
    She would only out items back on shelves in Sainsburys, not sprayed with anything or wiped with any wipes.
    So she only wipes them when she gets home? Or only in Asda? I get that it's not rational behaviour on her part and it's a huge strain on you - but what you are telling us is inconsistent.

    There has been a few incidents when despite all the staff knowing she has it and not to go near her have done and have sprayed cleaning stuff near her food, or gone near her food or even touched it and my daughter has got upset because she will not have any of it.
    If staff know her and her problems and are doing this deliberately as a wind-up then you have a massive reason to complain. But if they are just wiping down the next unoccupied till or the one she wants to use next without knowing that's going to trigger her - that's normal shop operations.

    As for watching her while she takes longer to study every item - if they don't know about the ocd (and you can't assume every staff member knows this even if someone has been told in the past) then it could look like suspicious behaviour or a deliberate distraction while someone else is shoplifting.
    and we've also been wrongly accused of stealing shopping and also using someone else's bank card.
    This is the bit that's not really being discussed - sidetracked by the "not eating anything for 7 days" bit.
    Why should I cover items in my basket which in large letters had the name of Morrisons on it, that is what my basket is for.
    Why do you have a Morrison's basket in Sainsbury? Do you mean you have a Morrison's branded bag in which you carry items previously bought in Morrison's and think this magically means no-one could ever put a Sainsbury's item in it?

    Clearly your daughter is not getting as much help as she needs - but it seems like the stress is also affecting you and if you are coming across as confrontational to shop staff on top of erm.. shall we say non-typical shopping behaviour it adds to the problem.
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    • UN17ED
    • By UN17ED 12th Feb 18, 2:26 PM
    • 369 Posts
    • 121 Thanks
    UN17ED
    I thought this thread had died a death. I re read the OP and have read the last page or two. How the story seems to change.....
    Originally posted by theonlywayisup
    Again I could have written the OP better but as I and my family are under a lot of pressure and upset and stress it can be difficult to articulate myself better.

    I can provide medical evidence of how bad my daughter is and what is going on, but that would only stand against me for changing the story, and the only thing that could die is either my daughter or another member of my family due to the lack of help from the local mental team.
    • takman
    • By takman 12th Feb 18, 2:32 PM
    • 3,395 Posts
    • 2,996 Thanks
    takman
    What are we accountable for? My daughter has a severe, debilitating illness and cannot help that.

    I have tried exhaustively with every avenue possible and have been let down by them all with the tiny exception of the GP who we have to wait a month for an appointment.

    To you and the 26 who thanked you please tell me how you would deal with it realistically.
    Originally posted by UN17ED
    As you are asking how other people would deal with it; If i had a daughter who had a very serious condition (not being able to eat for 7 days to me is an extremely serious condition regardless of it if is caused by mental or physical problems) then i would make sure she got treatment as soon as possible. If the NHS were unable/unwilling to provide this (as in your case) then i would be sorting out private treatment as soon as possible to get it sorted.

    Even if i didn't have the money then i would take out a loan. When it comes to a family members health borrowing money is justifiable (as long as you budget for it as well).

    Again I apologise for making it sound like she wiped and sprayed items at sainsburys, she didn't,

    Staff are paid to work I agree including cleaning the self service area, but they are not paid to stand and gork at us pointing and laughing nor spray cleaning stuff on my daughters shopping as she is putting through the self service till or to purposely touch them items especially knowing she had the illness. And it wasn't just us in the store at 10pm and if we were there that late it was due to the above treatment.
    Originally posted by UN17ED
    I really can't imagine that staff would be pointing and laughing at customers or spraying cleaning products directly onto customers shopping as they are scanning them. This majority of people would find this behavior unacceptable and a complaint about this would almost certainly result in someone being fired.

    But i don't think it's unreasonable that staff need to touch items in the Self-Checkout area. What happens when a random check happens and they have to scan 5 items?.
    • UN17ED
    • By UN17ED 12th Feb 18, 3:07 PM
    • 369 Posts
    • 121 Thanks
    UN17ED
    Well because your opening post suggested (to many other people as well as me)

    that your daughter felt the need to wipe every item she handled whether she chose to buy it or not - hence if it goes back on the shelf it could impact the next customer to handle it (what if they have issues as well?) or would not be saleable.
    So she only wipes them when she gets home? Or only in Asda? I get that it's not rational behaviour on her part and it's a huge strain on you - but what you are telling us is inconsistent.

    If staff know her and her problems and are doing this deliberately as a wind-up then you have a massive reason to complain. But if they are just wiping down the next unoccupied till or the one she wants to use next without knowing that's going to trigger her - that's normal shop operations.

    As for watching her while she takes longer to study every item - if they don't know about the ocd (and you can't assume every staff member knows this even if someone has been told in the past) then it could look like suspicious behaviour or a deliberate distraction while someone else is shoplifting.

    This is the bit that's not really being discussed - sidetracked by the "not eating anything for 7 days" bit.
    Why do you have a Morrison's basket in Sainsbury? Do you mean you have a Morrison's branded bag in which you carry items previously bought in Morrison's and think this magically means no-one could ever put a Sainsbury's item in it?

    Clearly your daughter is not getting as much help as she needs - but it seems like the stress is also affecting you and if you are coming across as confrontational to shop staff on top of erm.. shall we say non-typical shopping behaviour it adds to the problem.
    Originally posted by NBLondon
    I have said I could have explained the OP better it wasn't my intention to mislead anyone.

    Items were only put back on the shelves in Sainsburys if someone came too close to her trolley, the wiping items and/or spraying is done in Asda and is some form of comfort and a coping mechanism for her and as we go to Asda at their quiet time and with the help of the store manager and staff they make it better for her to shop but it's still stressful for her as I made the manager aware of her illness and he assured us staff would be made aware. It's a shame that the same could not be said for Sainsburys and the incidents with the touching and spraying was deliberate but sadly some people are mean and my complaint has been brushed aside and conveniently they say they cannot discuss it further.

    After wrongly being accused of shoplifting I was a bit upset and angry as it was embarrassing and handled wrong, the card theft was because I dropped my bank card on the floor and the member of staff buzzed for assistance and then 3 other members of staff came and said they couldn't accept the card and asked questions as to where I got it from, they did this in front of a lot of other customers and as well as upsetting my daughter, it was again embarrassing because they didn't believe it was mine and that I'd forgotten to sign the back strip.

    I have a mobility scooter and it has a little basket on the front which I had put items purchased from morrisons with the receipt in the basket, the items had Morrisons in large print so not hard to read.

    The 7days of not eating was no sidetracking of anything, it was real and not something I would want any parents to go through.

    They only needed to look at cctv to see nothing was being stolen as the store was full of them.

    I wasn't confrontational except for when I said, I would be sat on my scooter whilst my daughter was scanning her items dreading something would happen sometimes in tears because it was so stressful and upsetting seeing my daughter going through this.
    And again if it bothers other customers because my daughter doesn't just pick the first item then how sad are they?
    • UN17ED
    • By UN17ED 12th Feb 18, 3:26 PM
    • 369 Posts
    • 121 Thanks
    UN17ED
    Well because your opening post suggested (to many other people as well as me)

    that your daughter felt the need to wipe every item she handled whether she chose to buy it or not - hence if it goes back on the shelf it could impact the next customer to handle it (what if they have issues as well?) or would not be saleable.
    So she only wipes them when she gets home? Or only in Asda? I get that it's not rational behaviour on her part and it's a huge strain on you - but what you are telling us is inconsistent.

    If staff know her and her problems and are doing this deliberately as a wind-up then you have a massive reason to complain. But if they are just wiping down the next unoccupied till or the one she wants to use next without knowing that's going to trigger her - that's normal shop operations.

    As for watching her while she takes longer to study every item - if they don't know about the ocd (and you can't assume every staff member knows this even if someone has been told in the past) then it could look like suspicious behaviour or a deliberate distraction while someone else is shoplifting.

    This is the bit that's not really being discussed - sidetracked by the "not eating anything for 7 days" bit.
    Why do you have a Morrison's basket in Sainsbury? Do you mean you have a Morrison's branded bag in which you carry items previously bought in Morrison's and think this magically means no-one could ever put a Sainsbury's item in it?

    Clearly your daughter is not getting as much help as she needs - but it seems like the stress is also affecting you and if you are coming across as confrontational to shop staff on top of erm.. shall we say non-typical shopping behaviour it adds to the problem.
    Originally posted by NBLondon
    As you are asking how other people would deal with it; If i had a daughter who had a very serious condition (not being able to eat for 7 days to me is an extremely serious condition regardless of it if is caused by mental or physical problems) then i would make sure she got treatment as soon as possible. If the NHS were unable/unwilling to provide this (as in your case) then i would be sorting out private treatment as soon as possible to get it sorted.

    Even if i didn't have the money then i would take out a loan. When it comes to a family members health borrowing money is justifiable (as long as you budget for it as well).



    I really can't imagine that staff would be pointing and laughing at customers or spraying cleaning products directly onto customers shopping as they are scanning them. This majority of people would find this behavior unacceptable and a complaint about this would almost certainly result in someone being fired.

    But i don't think it's unreasonable that staff need to touch items in the Self-Checkout area. What happens when a random check happens and they have to scan 5 items?.
    Originally posted by takman
    Going private and getting a loan by budgeting for it? Unfortunately life on benefits is getting tougher and tougher and is nothing like the sensationalised tv shows, it's damn difficult to survive day to day and millions of us can't afford the luxury of getting a loan or going private.

    Whether you choose to believe that what happened in Sainsburys is true is up to you, Me and my daughter know it did and so to do the members of staff who did it and things get covered up and brushed over.

    What reason would they have to touch an item that had been scanned? Are you truly telling me you wouldn't find it strange a member of staff coming and touching an item for no reason?
    • Pollycat
    • By Pollycat 12th Feb 18, 3:49 PM
    • 20,187 Posts
    • 54,174 Thanks
    Pollycat
    OP - if I were you, I'd move on and unsubscribe to this thread because I can't see how it is doing you any good at all.
    • takman
    • By takman 12th Feb 18, 4:27 PM
    • 3,395 Posts
    • 2,996 Thanks
    takman
    Going private and getting a loan by budgeting for it? Unfortunately life on benefits is getting tougher and tougher and is nothing like the sensationalised tv shows, it's damn difficult to survive day to day and millions of us can't afford the luxury of getting a loan or going private.
    Originally posted by UN17ED
    Maybe you should post your SOA (basically how much income and outgoings you have each month) in the Debt-Free Wannabee forum and get them to see if you can cut down/save money on some spending.
    I have no idea of your personal circumstances but there are many ways to generate a good amount of extra income on this forum.

    If i was in your situation and was as stressed about it as you then i would find a way. Even if that meant starting a campaign and involving your MP or some other way.

    Whether you choose to believe that what happened in Sainsburys is true is up to you, Me and my daughter know it did and so to do the members of staff who did it and things get covered up and brushed over.
    Originally posted by UN17ED
    Then you should keep making complaints higher up until someone takes it seriously. But make sure you stick to the facts only and just describe what happened.

    What reason would they have to touch an item that had been scanned? Are you truly telling me you wouldn't find it strange a member of staff coming and touching an item for no reason?
    Originally posted by UN17ED
    I was thinking of Scan as you Shop but I've just realised Sainsburys doesn't have this!.
    • NeilCr
    • By NeilCr 12th Feb 18, 4:47 PM
    • 1,813 Posts
    • 2,441 Thanks
    NeilCr
    OP - if I were you, I'd move on and unsubscribe to this thread because I can't see how it is doing you any good at all.
    Originally posted by Pollycat
    Totally agree.
    • AndyPix
    • By AndyPix 12th Feb 18, 4:55 PM
    • 3,650 Posts
    • 2,866 Thanks
    AndyPix
    spray cleaning stuff on my daughters shopping as she is putting through the self service till or to purposely touch them items.
    Originally posted by UN17ED

    Im sorry you are having a hard time OP .
    I must admit though, Im really struggling to imagine any scenario where this would actually happen


    I dont have OCD - and if any staff member started spraying stuff anywhere near me I would be making the biggest fuss ever - again, i just cant imagine this actually happening ..


    How would they justify it ?


    What did they say when you said firmly "Erm excuse me - that has just gone all over my stuff !!"
    Running with scissors since 1978
    • UN17ED
    • By UN17ED 12th Feb 18, 10:22 PM
    • 369 Posts
    • 121 Thanks
    UN17ED
    OP - if I were you, I'd move on and unsubscribe to this thread because I can't see how it is doing you any good at all.
    Originally posted by Pollycat
    I came on here to vent and maybe get some good advice and help.
    I think I will keep sticking up for my daughter and wait for good advice on how to stop enabling her without her losing her life.
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