Has any one written a Complaint to Natwest (RBS) CEO Ross McEwan

Workingmum1990 · 4 November 2015 at 12:42PM

Hello All,
I was recently a victim of fraud involving my debit card at NatWest Bank. In July 2015, the fraudster called up NatWest bank, with all my details at hand, and was able to cancel and order a new Debit Card and PIN. The fraudster then intercepted the post and was able to get their hands on the Debit Card and PIN. They took£12,000.

Has anyone had to take this process?
What was your experience with raising a complaint with the CEO of a bank?
Apologies, but I have been advised to keep the details of the case confidential until the outcome.

Goldiegirl · 4 November 2015 at 1:17PM

I hate to ask this...... but who had access to your personal details - i.e. who is coming and going from your house to find this information, and be around to pick up post?

It's very sad, but the most likely person who perpetrated this fraud is someone close to you.

I'm surprised that they got so much money in two weeks? I thought cards had a limit to how much could be withdrawn. The largest amount that can be withdrawn on one of my cards is £500 a day, which would be a maximum of £7000 in the fortnight.

did you set up alerts for withdrawals?

Did you not check your bank accounts on a regular basis so you could pick up any unusual activity earlier?

Maybe the original claim was declined because the bank felt that you hadn't kept you details secure? e.g you had written down your PIN number

You said you raised a complaint and got a rationale for the decline - what was this rationale?

Workingmum1990 · 4 November 2015 at 1:48PM

Hey Goldiegirl,

No, no one has access to my personal information. I live in a council flat with my Husband and 7 month old daughter. When the postman leaves post on our door, he/she leaves the post half way in with half the post sticking out, ripe for any person walking next to it to steal the post. This has happened to my husband's account too, but the bank was able to sort it out. I live in a block of flats and our door faces a communal corridor. You would need to walk past my door to access 19 other flats.

Yes, they also withdrew money by going into the bank to do so, at this time the withdrew £4000 in 4 separate incidences at different branches. I didn't set up alerts unfortunately. I didn't know that I could. I didn't check my account at the time, I was dealing with severe postnatal depression at the time. It impacted on what I was doing during the day. No, I kept my PIN and Customer number in my head, I never wrote this down.

Without going to too much details, their rationale was:

They knew my Customer Number and PIN.
It is unlikely they intercepted the post.
They must have known how much money was in there before the fraud.

They summarised that I was involved in this

Any thoughts?

xylophone · 4 November 2015 at 2:20PM

l

eaves the post half way in with half the post sticking out, ripe for any person walking next to it to steal the post.

This happens every day? Have you made a formal, written complaint to the Post Office, explaining that their employee's negligence has led to fraudulent activity on your bank account?

jimjames · 4 November 2015 at 2:34PM

From your post I assume you are still waiting for a reply from the CEO?

Workingmum1990 wrote: »

Hey Goldiegirl,
They knew my Customer Number and PIN.
It is unlikely they intercepted the post.
They must have known how much money was in there before the fraud.

They summarised that I was involved in this
Any thoughts?

It seems strange that they picked your account unless they just got lucky or had some other info? I'd imagine the number of current accounts with over £12,000 in held by council flat owners is pretty small.
Don't the bank ask for ID for cash withdrawals over the counter so how did they justify allowing these cash withdrawals? Do they have CCTV in the branches to be able to identify who made the transactions?

Goldiegirl · 4 November 2015 at 2:39PM

Workingmum1990 wrote: »

Without going to too much details, their rationale was:

They knew my Customer Number and PIN.
It is unlikely they intercepted the post.
They must have known how much money was in there before the fraud.

They summarised that I was involved in this
Any thoughts?

From reading your initial post, they were the conclusions I came to, apart from you being involved in it - in these sort of cases it's often somebody who is close to the victim, close enough to know personal details and have access to the house/flat and who can look at mail that has been received.

You said that the fraudster had access to your customer number and online PIN. You initially said that have been keeping the details 'safe', then later said that you kept them 'in your head'.

This information would originally have been supplied by post, and would have been sent in separate letters. For the bank, and many people reading this, it would stretch credibility too far that the letters are sticking out of the postbox every day, that a fraudster would pull these two individual letters out of the postbox, steam them open to get the information and then stick the envelopes down again and put them back in your letter box.

The most likely explanation is, somebody you know has seen the letters, and statements so they know how much is in the account. Or you may even have told them yourself that you were expecting a large sum of money.

Have you been to the police yet? A crime has been committed here, so you should report it to them. But, I know this can be difficult, if you have any suspicion at all that someone close to you has done this.

There's nothing to stop you doing your own detective work as well. Were the branches used for the withdrawals close to where somebody you know works?

At least some of these withdrawals must have been done by ATM as you mentioned one was done just before midnight and one just afterwards. Was somebody close to you unaccounted for that evening? Or working a late shift?

Archi_Bald · 4 November 2015 at 3:52PM

Workingmum1990 wrote: »

We hired Richard Emery, 4Keys, who looked into the case we found that the fraudster made bank enquiries when they visited the cash machine to check the amount of money in there on a constant basis.

What sort of enquiries did the fraudster make? How did Richard Emery find out about these? Did he have a Court order that allowed him to get access to data Natwest hold about your account? Did you do a SAR and gave the data to him? If you did a SAR, it would have included the CCTV recording(s) of the withdrawals made over the counter. Did you recognise the person who made them?

Workingmum1990 wrote: »

As Richard had to drop the case due to family matters

Odd. There is nothing on his website that suggests he is pre-occupied with personal matters and can't take on any business.

Goldiegirl wrote: »

Have you been to the police yet?

Presumably Richard Emery had advised that this is necessary, or reported it on behalf of the OP?

Workingmum1990 · 4 November 2015 at 4:31PM

Thanks for your kind advice all.

I will try and summarise my response in one go. I have been in contact with the police and I have a crime reference number. They don’t give you much other than that and that I should contact FOS. I have been in contact and complained to the post office about the letters and they have apologise and have confirmed that the will be training their staff better. The letter was sent to the CEO too.

Richard Emery made some enquiries which showed how the fraudster used the account. They made balance enquiries all the time before they withdrew money. He was able to lead on the investigation because I gave him permission, in writing, to do so. No courts or anything. If he website is does not say something about personal matters, have you tried calling him and asking? I am not so sure why you mentioned that? The bank has CCTV and when we asked for footage the bank refused on the grounds that I it wouldn’t prove anything as I could have given the person permission access my account which is really frustrating.

I know you are trying to be helpful, but I kept my details safe in that it was in my head. I did get the letter confirming my details and I have since destroyed it. I couldn’t think of anyone who would do this. Can’t hackers access my computer to get all this information?

I am going to divert the responses and ask if anyone has dealt with any matter at CEO level with any bank and what their response were?

Archi_Bald · 4 November 2015 at 4:45PM

Workingmum1990 wrote: »

. Can’t hackers access my computer to get all this information?

A hacker could record your keystrokes and log into your Natwest account. Do you have antivirus and malware detection software? If not, you should urgently get it and use it.

However, logging into your account does not give the hacker your address or your PIN. It is a lot more likely that the thief is someone you know, or lives close to you.

Workingmum1990 wrote: »

I am going to divert the responses and ask if anyone has dealt with any matter at CEO level with any bank and what their response were?

I have dealt with matters at CEO level but they were entirely different matters and their outcome is not relevant

agrinnall · 4 November 2015 at 5:18PM

Workingmum1990 wrote: »

I did get the letter confirming my details and I have since destroyed it.

There is no way to know what a PIN is other than seeing it written or being entered or being spoken, or by a keylogger on a PIN entry device. What you do online is irrelevant as the PIN is never used there.

Workingmum1990 wrote: »

I am going to divert the responses and ask if anyone has dealt with any matter at CEO level with any bank and what their response were?

I very much doubt if the CEO has done any more than glance at your letter, if he's seen it at all. The CEO of a major bank has many things to keep them busy, all of them more important to the running of the bank than a single retail customer's complaint. In my 14 years working in banking I never even saw any of the CEOs during that time, let alone had any dealings with them (although I did miss a visit from Fred the Shred as I was out of the office that day).

Archi_Bald · 4 November 2015 at 5:53PM

agrinnall wrote: »

I very much doubt if the CEO has done any more than glance at your letter, if he's seen it at all. The CEO of a major bank has many things to keep them busy, all of them more important to the running of the bank than a single retail customer's complaint.

I would think it is very unlikely any CEO will see any consumer complaint addressed to them, and even more unlikely to do anything about such complaints themselves. Their mail box will be monitored by an assistant who will pass things to whoever is the right person in the Executive team. The assistant may or may not be sending an acknowledgement but the actual work will be done by someone who is appropriately qualified and authorised. They will be involving other people (lawyers, fraud specialists etc) as appropriate.

Has any one written a Complaint to Natwest (RBS) CEO Ross McEwan

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