Cesar Millan Dog Whisperer

MrsTinks · 19 February 2008 at 11:32PM

sarah*a wrote: »

Is this right? One of my dogs does this to the other - rolls him over and pins him for a few seconds - but only when he's being a PITA and won't leave her alone. She lets him straight up again, puts her paw on his head ( we says she pats him to say 'there there, no hard feelings ) and then he toddles off and she can go back to sleep/chew her bone etc etc.

Not a CM fan myself either - his 'illusion' collars speak volumes :mad:

Actually placing a paw on any part of the dog especially the head is a sign of dominace... She's just told him what behaviour she disagrees with and then reinforced the fact SHE is in charge

As for his illusion collar then if it was available here I'd recommend them. They are a much better alternative to what people buy as it is! Spike collars are my personal pet hate very closely followed by full choke chains - not because they are "cruel" but because they are cruel IF used incorrectly which nearly all of them are.
Personally I think half check collars are a good alternative IF correctly fitted, but people forget that they still have to teach the dog manners and how to walk - that usually results in the dog half strangling itself by pulling like a freight train and tightening the choke hold...

Anyway... I'll walk away from my hobby horse now or I'll go on all night

tiamai_d · 20 February 2008 at 12:38AM

I have used the basis of a few of his techniques (but then again I have been doing it since I was little before I had even heard of CM, was just the way I had been tought to interact with dogs) with my own dog, for example, walking. He walks to heel well after discovering that pulling ahead gets him a tug from the lead. I have never had to use halti collars or anything else except a collar and lead. After a short walk like this I know that I can let him have his run and he will come back when called, no matter if his bestest bud from next door turns up. If we go straight to the run without the walk on lead part, he will ignore me for his bestest bud, no matter how often we practice 'praise and reward'. On that one CM seems to have got it right. Though when on his run, he is expected to come and go as I tell him (he is a collie so responds to come and go very well, and only runs in circles:rotfl:)

I have never moddy coddled a dog in my life. A dog is a dog, not a baby or a child in my view, another thing I agree with CM about.

pboae, I am my dogs leader in the same way that I am my children's leader. I don't have to dominate them to do this. I simply believe that what I say, goes. My dog will not jump on the counter, my kids will not climb on the counter, if any of them decided to do it, the same result would occur, a very strong 'No, get down!'. This is my view of the 'Pack Leader Theory. I have set boundaries, and I will deal with behavior that is outwith these boundaries.

If your dog obeys you, then surely it follows that you are his leader?? If not, why would he obey?

The Pack Leader thing can be misinterpreted. You do not dominate your dog fully like an over bearing mad lord, you do it quietly, calmly and in a way that you know what you are teaching your dog is the best thing for your dog's health and well being, because running away could end with a road accident. The same way as you teach your children to do as they are told, not because you want them to be mindless zombies, but because too much chocolate makes them sick and staying up too late makes them tired and cranky the next day.

Also, I'd rather just think my dog into behaving than having an array of halti's, clickers, shake bottles, this thats and the nexts. CM's ideas on dog training have worked for me and Doggy since he was a pup. I have a lovely dog who is great with kids, knows how to walk well and stays in his bed while we are eating, loves his runs, and whos only bad habit is that annoying bark to get the rabbit to look at him.

ameliarate · 20 February 2008 at 5:13PM

http://youtube.com/watch?v=gwFeSlsjFHA

I have just watched this and that dog is behaving in a very similar way to the way mine does when she sees another dog and no way is she being friendly. The dog is jumping up, I don't believe he is pulling her because I know how mine behaves in the same situation. He holds the dog down forcefully because it is a strong dog but no way is all his weight pinned onto the dog. Nor do I see him making the dogs meet head to head at any time the meeting was in the same way it would be on an everyday walk.

I sometime use his method of tapping the back end of my dog with my foot when she is in the early stages of that behaviour and it works. NEVER do I kick her, simply tap gently. If I don't get her attention quickly enough when she sees the other dog she goes into exactly that out of control behaviour.

Unfortunately I can't afford a dog psychologist nor can I re-socialise her with other dogs because of the risk. She has been like this since she was attacked.

DKLS · 22 February 2008 at 12:50PM

pboae wrote: »

With the above in mind, these are the reasons I dislike CM

1) his training methods involve hurting the dog. I find this completely unacceptable.
2) his training methods are potentially dangerous to the dog (he has been sued for the physical damage done to dogs at his centre).
3) his training methods are dangerous to the trainers
4) his training methods create dogs that are walking time bombs. A dog that has been trained not show fear is an accident waiting to happen. If something scared them and they are not allowed to run away, not allowed to scare it off, not allowed to look to their owner for protection, then they only option they have left is to kill it. When the dog finally snaps and goes for someone or another dog the owners are completely shocked, because they thought the dog had been 'cured'.

I have to say what a load of twaddle, hurting dogs is the last thing Cesar does.

Says it all when you mentioned Ian Dunbar, a very bitter sad man who has some serious jealousy issues with Cesar and his methods.

The key message of Cesar is that he trains the owner the dog usually responds very quickly and drops undesirable behaviours and obsessive behaviours , in nearly every case the owners are numpties, who havent a clue, and either treat the dog like a child or offer no exercise etc.

heccus · 22 February 2008 at 9:13PM

Precisely.

rescuedogs · 22 February 2008 at 10:41PM

I would much prefer to watch a trainer that uses positive reinforcement and rewards for dog training, I would not let him near my dogs.

pboae · 22 February 2008 at 11:06PM

Presumably the American Humane Association are just jealous as well.
http://www.americanhumane.org/site/PageServer?pagename=nr_news_releases_dog_whisperer

I'd like to say I am surprised or disappointed with how much support he has, but I can't honestly say that. There are too many people who believe everything they see on television. Still, it only needs a few more deaths and serious injuries at the 'Dog Psychology Center' or at the hands of his assistants. Dead dogs don't make for good ratings.

In the meantime dogs will continue to get kicked, throttled and shocked by the people who are supposed to be caring for them, and that's the bit that really does depress me.

stringandbrownpaper · 25 February 2008 at 12:10AM

A little excerpt from the above link..

'Dog Whisperer' Training Approach More Harmful Than Helpful
Denver (September 6, 2006)
The training tactics featured on Cesar Millan's “Dog Whisperer” program are inhumane, outdated and improper, according to a letter sent yesterday to the National Geographic Channel by American Humane, the oldest national organization protecting children and animals.
In the letter, American Humane, which works to raise public awareness about responsible pet ownership and reduce the euthanasia of unwanted pets, expressed dismay over the “numerous inhumane training techniques” advocated by Cesar Millan on “Dog Whisperer.”

Torgerson noted that the safety of a woman and her German shepherd were jeopardized in one episode by the use of an electric shock collar, which forced the tormented dog to redirect its aggression at its owner, biting her arm. “Furthermore, the television audience was never told that Mr. Millan was attempting to modify the dog’s behavior by causing pain with the shock collar,” he said.

The man is dangerous. Apart from traumatising the dogs he personally has contact with, and creating ticking timebombs in the dogs that he 'trains', he's making Joe Bloggs think that the things he's doing are acceptable. Giving the wrong messages about what is aggressive body language in dogs and generally spreading misinformation that's worse that the shouting and choke chains approach that made good telly some years back. SSSIIIITTTT!!!!!

Yes, the owners are planks. Of course they are. It wouldn't be good telly otherwise, would it? If they were educated by someone using modern methods, there would be good results. These ones would last..

He's nearly as good as the idiot in the pet shop that's been selling every person with any kind of a problem those squirty air canisters.

DKLS · 25 February 2008 at 9:04AM

stringandbrownpaper, could you explain your sentence: "creating ticking timebombs" what is the evidence behind this? Are you saying that Daddy is a ticking timebomb?, just waiting to turn back to his pitbull genetics and maul every small child in sight? I know which methods I will use when I get a dog again, and it certainly wont be clicker training or cheese biscuits I prefer an efficient method that works.

Mojisola · 25 February 2008 at 12:02PM

pboae wrote: »

Still, it only needs a few more deaths and serious injuries at the 'Dog Psychology Center' or at the hands of his assistants.

I think this is very unfair - the only dog that has been injured was brought to the centre by the dog owner's personal dog trainer to use equipment. The dog was not handled by the centre's assistants, only by the trainer.

Cesar Millan Dog Whisperer

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