Cesar Millan Dog Whisperer

Topdogfran · 22 January 2009 at 1:07PM

If any training programme has to warn against using the methods without consulting a professional - what is so harmful about their techniques. I worked with Gwen Bailey (author of Perfect Puppy etc.) whose motto is 'first do no harm'.

CFC · 23 January 2009 at 3:01AM

Topdogfran wrote: »

If any training programme has to warn against using the methods without consulting a professional - what is so harmful about their techniques. I worked with Gwen Bailey (author of Perfect Puppy etc.) whose motto is 'first do no harm'.

Partly because the dogs on these programs are nutters, and partly because the owners on the programs are nutters....

orlao · 23 January 2009 at 6:53PM

I honestly think that the programs are so popular because so many people have pets, dogs in this case who they somehow expect to be fully trained on arrival at 8 weeks.These are the people who will fall for what they see as a quick fix and who are least likely to take note of the advice to consult a professional trainer as until now they haven't seen any need for training at all.

There are so few people now who have basic animal savvy IYSWIM.....how many times have you heard a dog owner say that "they did that to upset me" " they never listen to me" " the dog doesn't like me" ? Note the repeated use of the word me! Quite often they haven't put any work or effort into teaching the dog, let alone any consistancy and they blame the dog when it does something wrong

IMHO they are the people who end up on this type of show.....not the dogs fault it's an untrained hooligan but these are the people that watch a TV series or read an article and decide that are now experts in these techniques but they've already proved that they can't train a dog in the basic manners/skills so when they then attempt CMs methods it all goes terribly wrong and in many cases it's the dog who suffers because it's now branded as dangerous.The difference between CM and the other usually British TV programmes I've seen is that on DB and It's me or the dog , the emphasis is usually on training the owner.....and a lot less physical force is applied. On both those programmes there have been dogs PTS as the trainers have said they are too dangerous to keep, there doesn't seem to be the same "macho, miracle worker" attitude that I have noticed on my admittedly limited watching of the Dog Whisperer

frankie55 · 24 January 2009 at 1:49AM

I've been watching a lot of the Cesar Millan programmes recently and have noted some of the op's concerns about his methods. The main thing is that most of the dogs on the shows are extreme cases who have had their problems for several years. They seem to be mostly large stubborn strong dogs, or tiny neurotic dogs......and their owners are amazingly ignorant in that they don't think they need to exercise their dogs daily, they seem to think that leaving a dog in the garden all day is enough!! Frankly I'm staggered by many of the owners attitudes to their dogs, they treat them as posessions and not as companion animals. They was a young man on yesterday whose main concern was putting pink booties on his chihouahua with a matching dress!!
Anyway, some of Cesar's methods do seem extreme at tmes, but we also have to remember that it is an American TV programme, some of which can have dodgy production values, and these dogs are seriously damaged, it would be boring to see him correct my mini schnauzer's habit of barking when someone knocks at the door, she runs back and forth telling me someone is there as I don't move too fast, being disabled, but shuts up when I open the door.
I take the tips I need from these shows and make sure my dogs don't get into bad habits and exercise them properley, I also have dogs which are suitable for my situation, though I adore large shaggy water loving dogs I can't cope with them within my lifestyle, the dog owners on the show seem to think that an English Mastiff or Rotweiler is suitable for a smallish apartment, and as for the Pitbulls on the show I wonder at their sanity in expecting a child to be able to exercise a dog weighing150lbs. By the way nothing against any of the breeds I've mentiond when they are with caring experienced owners who know the breed inside out.
I've had dogs which have been hard work, and a totally neurotic Border Collie which I'd taken in after my parents had spoilled him rotten, and had good results. but the Collie had to be pts after a couple of years as he took to hiding in the garden hedge and jumping out at people who passed in the street, and came too close to biting a young girl, it was totally my fault as a Border Collie, though traditional in my family, wasn't suited to living in a town and by then wasn't suitable to be trained to live on a farm, he was bought for his colour and show potenial with little thought of his doggy needs. It was a harsh lesson 20 yrs ago. Cesar at least seems to care about the dogs first.

Raksha · 24 January 2009 at 10:18AM

The problem is owners see these techniques appear to work, don't take into account the fact that the reason the problem arose in the first place is down to bad pet ownership, and think that these techniques are suitable to use in lower level examples of the same sorts of behaviour, or even as preventative measures.

cally_2 · 24 January 2009 at 8:01PM

I too take the tips I need from the shows. His method of dealing with a rescue dog scared of humans has worked brilliantly for us. Not giving eye contact or speaking directly to our rescue GSD quickly resulted in her starting to come to us. After several months and a little more patience she now asks for her tummy to be rubbed while lying totally upside down with paws in the air!

If I feel anything I'm seeing from any trainer doesn't sit well with my own instinct then I don't use it.

Di · 24 January 2009 at 9:34PM

this is not his method but i'm glad you took that from the show, its sad that dogs have been put in the position to afraid of us. allow them to come to you and dont force the issue.

i remember years ago getting a kitten that was terrified and my mum said to put it on my lap and 'make it get used to you touching it'. i did as i was told for about half an hour and couldnt bear it so stopped and ignored her. she remained timid for the rest of her life but would sit next to me on the sofa having a belly rub purring away. if i had not allowed her to come to me when she felt she wanted to and had forced her to confront her fears, i would have had a hissing scratching nervous wreck.

Spentit_3 · 25 January 2009 at 8:54PM

pboae wrote: »

Presumably the American Humane Association are just jealous as well.
http://www.americanhumane.org/site/PageServer?pagename=nr_news_releases_dog_whisperer

I'd like to say I am surprised or disappointed with how much support he has, but I can't honestly say that. There are too many people who believe everything they see on television. Still, it only needs a few more deaths and serious injuries at the 'Dog Psychology Center' or at the hands of his assistants. Dead dogs don't make for good ratings.

In the meantime dogs will continue to get kicked, throttled and shocked by the people who are supposed to be caring for them, and that's the bit that really does depress me.

Pboae,

I have no way of knowing if what you say is true, but I do know for a fact that Cesars methods work. You have to lead your dog if you don't want your dog to lead you and he teaches us to do that in a calm assertive manner. He does not advocate violence or aggression in any way. Have you read his book? Whatever you've been told goes on at the dog centre, he does not talk about those sort of methods in his books or on tv.
I know many other dog walkers that use his methods and swear by them. These are people with happy contented dogs who can run freely every day amongst other dogs and people. I know that is the truth.

Spentit_3 · 25 January 2009 at 9:12PM

Just wanted to add that pinning a dog down by a collar is a practice that is commonly used in the Kennel club good citizenship training scheme. In fact it's something that I was advised to do very early on to get my dog used to 'settling down' on command. I have also seen it used very effectively to calm down an aggressive dog or a dominant dog ( ie peeing up someones leg lol)

pboae · 25 January 2009 at 9:53PM

Spentit wrote: »

Just wanted to add that pinning a dog down by a collar is a practice that is commonly used in the Kennel club good citizenship training scheme. In fact it's something that I was advised to do very early on to get my dog used to 'settling down' on command. I have also seen it used very effectively to calm down an aggressive dog or a dominant dog ( ie peeing up someones leg lol)

Oh great, this thread has been dragged up yet again. :rolleyes:

The KC scheme is just a syllabus, how it is taught is entirely down to the trainers at the club, it's not monitored by the KC in anyway. Pinning was never used at any club I have been to, including in the KC classes attended. But then, I wouldn't go to a club that treated dogs that way.

There is a recent news report from USA here
http://www.komonews.com/home/video/37440019.html?video=pop&t=a

I don't see a great deal of calm assertiveness going on in those clips, just his usual tricks of shock collars, choking and pinning.

Cesar Millan Dog Whisperer

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