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  • FIRST POST
    • pault123
    • By pault123 21st Mar 05, 7:52 PM
    • 1,096Posts
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    pault123
    HELP-FTB unfair negotiations
    • #1
    • 21st Mar 05, 7:52 PM
    HELP-FTB unfair negotiations 21st Mar 05 at 7:52 PM
    In the middle of buying my first house. After recieving my valuation from Nationwide, work needs doing on the property in order for me to get the full amount I need to borrow.
    The work will cost 1100

    I am giving full asking price for the property. The vender will withdraw from the sale unless I cover the cost of the work myself.

    I was under the impression the full price for the house was subject to it being in sound condition. I've tried to negotiate only to be told he won't lower below full asking price.

    Is it wrong for me to expect him to pay for and carry out the work to get the house up to full asking price value.

    Have read the other recent post similar to this and it had some good advise. Would apprieciate some advice towards my situation.

    Paul
Page 1
  • Noozan
    • #2
    • 21st Mar 05, 8:04 PM
    • #2
    • 21st Mar 05, 8:04 PM
    I know how you feel and totally agree with you but the seller is perfectly within their rights not to sell at a lower price to you if they don't want to A house is only worth as much as someone is willing to pay for it! So I guess you have to ask yourself how much you really want it? Do you know if there were many other people interested in it?

    We bought our house in July last year, in Scotland, so it was the "offers over" system. It was marketed at 48500 and when we came to look at it, the owner was just seeing another couple to the door. The house had only come on the market that morning and the first couple had offered her 55000. We knew there were other people lined up to see the house too and we decided to ask her if she would take it off the market for 57000, stressing that we were ina postion to move whenever it was convenient for her and that we weren't in a chain. Luckily, she agreed!

    Anyway, after we had the survey done, we were told it needed a whole new roof. We still bought the house at the price we offered as we knew if we tried to lower it, she could easily have told us where to go and sold it to the next person.

    The new roof, guttering, fascias and re harling cost nearly 4000 but houses in this street have been selling for around about 72000 recently so we haven't done too badly.

    We were willing to buy the house even though we knew we'd have to spend our savings on repairs because I loved the garden so much - it's absolutely huge as it was originally intended for another house that for one reason or another didn't get built, so in effect it's on a double plot. We had looked at loads of houses before this and nothing was "quite" right.

    So, how much do you want the house??
    I have the mind of a criminal genius. I keep it in the freezer next to Mother....
    • stratford
    • By stratford 21st Mar 05, 10:11 PM
    • 409 Posts
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    stratford
    • #3
    • 21st Mar 05, 10:11 PM
    • #3
    • 21st Mar 05, 10:11 PM
    hmm - it's tricky.

    my gut feeling says threaten to walk away - you've offered the asking price, which very few people are doing at the moment in this slow market so I'm surprised that they are not willing to either cover the cost or meet you half way.

    How much was the property for - is 1100 a big chunk of the price in % terms and was the price comparable/much cheaper than others in the area as in the post above? Obviously it's an expense you can do without, but if you're still getting a bargain, love the property and somebody else might buy it, then it might be better to pay up.

    Personally, if there's other property on the market that you might be interested in, I'd make some noises that way and see if a deal can be done. At the end of the day, I realise that you'd lose the valuation money, but with prices generally falling/more realistic pricing, you might get a better deal elsewhere. Even if you love the property, you'd probably be selling in a few years for your next home and want as much equity as possible to trade up.
    • Plasticman
    • By Plasticman 21st Mar 05, 10:18 PM
    • 2,259 Posts
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    Plasticman
    • #4
    • 21st Mar 05, 10:18 PM
    • #4
    • 21st Mar 05, 10:18 PM
    In your post you say "work needs doing on the property in order for me to get the full amount I need to borrow". If Nationwide are refusing to lend you the amount you need the work must be fairly substantial. Given the current condition of the market I would be tempted to offer the asking price less 1100. If they don't like it then wave goodbye and look elsewhere. As other posters have said though, it depends how much you want this house.
    • Poppy9
    • By Poppy9 21st Mar 05, 10:32 PM
    • 17,988 Posts
    • 22,279 Thanks
    Poppy9
    • #5
    • 21st Mar 05, 10:32 PM
    • #5
    • 21st Mar 05, 10:32 PM
    Agree its a buyers market now but it does depend on the house and area. If its in a very popular school catchment area etc the vendor might get their asking price easier. You need to look at what other houses locally are selling for - look here www.ourproperty.co.uk its free to use and tells you what house have sold for. Don't forget though that prices have levelled out or even dropped in the last few months.

    What work does it need doing? How old is the house etc?
    ~Laugh and the world laughs with you, weep and you weep alone.~
  • ciano125
    • #6
    • 21st Mar 05, 10:34 PM
    • #6
    • 21st Mar 05, 10:34 PM
    Tell em where to go i say!! It's turning into a buyers market now, and estate agents now have 1/3 more properties on their books than they did this time last year. If it was me, I would withdraw my offer completely seeing as he is in my opinion being unreasonable in refusing to negotiate. Yes, you may lose the house, but there are plenty more I can assure you and it will royally pee him off that he has lost a sale for the sake of a grand. Its the only way to deal with these types of people, dont let your heart rule your head, this is the biggest purchase you'll ever make.
    • m00nie
    • By m00nie 21st Mar 05, 10:59 PM
    • 2,238 Posts
    • 1,208 Thanks
    m00nie
    • #7
    • 21st Mar 05, 10:59 PM
    • #7
    • 21st Mar 05, 10:59 PM
    as others say check to see what similar houses have fetched, maybe this house has already been reduced? if its under 120k you will now be saving on stamp duty so that money could be the repair money,

    guess it depends how much you want the property, are you prepared to lose it for 1100 ?
    • pault123
    • By pault123 22nd Mar 05, 1:00 AM
    • 1,096 Posts
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    pault123
    • #8
    • 22nd Mar 05, 1:00 AM
    • #8
    • 22nd Mar 05, 1:00 AM
    "So, how much do you want the house??"

    Its in a good location, its just I feel im being forced into either pay these costs or threatened it will be withdrawn from offer. Don't like the way the vender is coming across.


    "How much was the property for - is 1100 a big chunk of the price in % terms and was the price comparable/much cheaper than others in the area as in the post above?"

    119975, so it is stamp duty exempt, he had the cheek to mention that I was saving in stamp duty now so I could afford to have the work done myself! The price is comparable to others in the area.

    "Given the current condition of the market I would be tempted to offer the asking price less 1100. "

    I tried negotiating 50/50 even though i think I shouldnt have to pay any of it if I give full price, then I tried 25/75 - me paying the 75! still very stubbord and wanted full price. (oh they will give me the curtains to make the 100% repair cost easier to take)

    "What work does it need doing? How old is the house etc?"

    its internal structural work, it is quite essential it gets done. house is approx 65 years old.

    "it will royally pee him off that he has lost a sale for the sake of a grand."

    Thats how im feeling tonight just tell him where to stick it, see how a nights sleep helps?!

    "guess it depends how much you want the property, are you prepared to lose it for 1100"

    Not that im prepared to lose it for 1100 just he (vender) seems to think im absurd asking him to put a bit towards the repairs when it is a requirement of nationwide to give the house its full value!

    Thanks for the help any more much apprieciated!

    At the moment swinging towards withdrawing my offer and losing the valuation money
  • nelly
    • #9
    • 22nd Mar 05, 7:55 AM
    • #9
    • 22nd Mar 05, 7:55 AM
    Just tell him, "you know more and more houses are coming on the market and you will wait thanks very much!" This time next year you'll wish you had waited.
  • mr218
    withdraw offer
    the property market is definitely stalling and your seller is trying to call your bluff. he seems a bit smug and thinks that he has got you on a hook. he has got some cheek claiming that you will save on stamp duty and he will give you the curtains. My feeling is that he senses that you like the house too much and therefore it is a weakness on your part. he just wants to exploit it.

    go back and ask for a drop more than 1100 make it 1500. put your offer in writing and outline the reasons why you are doing so in an impersonal and businesslike fashion.

    if he still does not reduce it then walk away from the sale telling them that if they reconsider their position, you are still willing to negotiate.

    i think that unless the house is undervalued (which does not appear to be case) in the first place, the seller will be taking a massive risk of lower property price and a longer sale period by putting it back on the market.


    if they dont come back to you, then tell yourself that you have saved on a major hassle. if they do, then depending on the time they take to come back, your position could be further strengthened and you can ask for a bigger discount citing falling property prices as your reason for doing so.


    in the end, try to make a financial decision as opposed to an emotional one. if buying the house at the asking price saves you rent and further hassle for looking for a new property, then 1100 pounds is not too much of a hassle. try to fund this 'loan' using a credit card deal or something similar.

    good luck
    Meera
  • garysletters
    If your "thinking" about withdrawing the offer then your obviously not "in love" with it. It is probably best to scare the vendor first (go back to the same estate agent, explain your unhappiness, say your keeping your options open, and make a couple more viewings for similar properties......anything of same size under 120K).

    This info will maybe work its way back to the vendor who is at the moment pressuring you, thus putting him under pressure. Both the agents and vendor risk losing a sale for a few hundred quid.

    However, if its on sale at 119975, then maybe it is undervalued so it doesn't attract stamp duty.

    The asking price is NOT for the property in perfect condition, its an ASKING PRICE. All houses are negotiable, even perfect ones. (which dont exist).
    Anything I write is based on my opinion only. Before acting upon any advice from anyone on a forum further professional advice should be sought.
    • terrierlady
    • By terrierlady 22nd Mar 05, 8:16 AM
    • 1,725 Posts
    • 539 Thanks
    terrierlady
    you have only offered to buy, not signed a contract and exchanged, so your free to walk away at anytime before exchange, choice is ;
    do you want to pay/can you pay or do you want to walk away?
    You are walking gold dust as a FTByr and if the vendor cant see this he needs glasses, he could be stuck with a long chain, with all the problems that brings.
    Lots of good advise from fellow members here go with your gut feelings after all your the purchaser.
    my bark is worse than my bite!!!!!!!!
  • dougk
    Did you have a standard valuation or a homebuyers report?

    Although I have to say I take lots of things surveys say with a pinch of sort, if you had only the valuation done, there maybe other things that need doing that have not been highlighted.

    If you are still intrested in purchasing get a couple of quotes from tradesmen for the work - don't rely on the surveys estimate.

    Remember that the house has already cost you some money (valuation and searches I pressume) so walking away you would need to shell out this again on the next house....

    Personally I would try the line get the problem fixed and I'll pay the price I offered!
    Last edited by dougk; 22-03-2005 at 9:57 AM.
    • Pal
    • By Pal 22nd Mar 05, 12:55 PM
    • 2,062 Posts
    • 731 Thanks
    Pal
    Two questions: Are you in a real hurry to move? Do you really love the house?

    If the answer to both are no, then I would play the game a bit. Contact the estate agent (not the buyer) reducing your offer by, say, 5k, to allow for the fact that house prices are generally falling and work needs doing to the property. At the same time ask the estate agent to show you some more houses in your price range, and also make it clear that you are looking at properties through other estate agents as well.

    This makes the estate agent a bit more desperate to persuade the seller that the lower offer is reasonable!

    Then start looking at other properties. Just leave your lower offer on the table indefinitely, whether it is rejected or not, and start acting as if you don't really care one way or the other about it.

    If the seller changes his mind then buy at the lower price. If he wants to be pig headed then he will have wasted time and will be back where he started.

    In the meantime you will find a cheaper better house somewhere else.
    • pault123
    • By pault123 22nd Mar 05, 3:14 PM
    • 1,096 Posts
    • 1,835 Thanks
    pault123
    Thanks for all the help, will reply tonight in a rush at the mo!

    Found some interesting information

    http://www.propertyfinder.com/2/pf/articles/sellersViewHousingMarket.do

    relates to my situation>

    Paul
  • nelly
    The advice about telling the estate agent rather than the seller is excellent, they will put the pressure on for you, they are only interested in their commision and nothing else, and they want it in the bank now not latter.
    • pault123
    • By pault123 25th Mar 05, 11:57 AM
    • 1,096 Posts
    • 1,835 Thanks
    pault123
    Thanks for all the help.

    Have withdrawn my offer yesterday, explained I had seen another property for less and have also viewed it. I said I wouldn't budge on paying for the work to be done and giving full asking price.

    The estate agent who I dealt with (thx nelly) sounded quite shocked as he knows i really like the house, he is in negotiations with the vendor. Get the impression he doesnt want to remarket it as all the hassle involved and only one fee!

    Paul
    • terrierlady
    • By terrierlady 25th Mar 05, 2:27 PM
    • 1,725 Posts
    • 539 Thanks
    terrierlady
    well done on turning the tables as i said you are walking gold dust let us know how you get on the vendor I'm sure will negotiate now you have stood firm .
    my bark is worse than my bite!!!!!!!!
    • mrcow
    • By mrcow 25th Mar 05, 5:03 PM
    • 14,427 Posts
    • 30,435 Thanks
    mrcow
    Good for you!

    If your mortgage company won't lend the money without the work being done, then it's highly probable that he's going to have the same problem with any other prospective buyers, and at some stage is going to have to wake up and start negotiating!

    If I were him, I wouldn't fancy having to start all over again - especially if there is a chain above him, as he will more than likely risk losing the property above him too!
  • stillill
    I love this thread!
    Keep the sellers on their toes and make sure you're happy with your big investment. Also, if it needs 1100 of work to get the mortgage, surely the property is overvalued by 1100? Very optimistic!
    Filiss
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