Ground Source Heat Pumps

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  • Cardew
    Cardew Posts: 29,037 Forumite
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    Geotherm wrote: »
    The output on that particular unit is 10.7Kw @35C. At 50C this decreases to 10.1 Kw. The company that installed it, ( who have been going for a number of years ) would have calculated the thermal requirements for the house, based on insulation and thermal loss so therefore the pump should be sized correctly.
    A 16.7 Kw output pump requires 3.7Kw input @ 35C and 4.9Kw @ 50C.
    I deal with these units on a daily basis, so I hope you can understand I have a lot of knowledge about them.

    As posted earlier, in the 2 months on that tariff the OP has used approx 7,000kWh. If we 'allow' 1,000kWh for normal electrical consumption that is approx 6,000kWh taken by the GSHP.

    2 months = 61 days = 1464 hours.

    So the GSHP has used an average over 4kWh for every hour on a 24/7 basis.
  • dane-katie
    dane-katie Posts: 961 Forumite
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    Geotherm wrote: »
    I think, that we should wait until we get the readings and then go from there. It is no good just questioning without the basic information.
    I do agree with your comment regarding installers who do not know what they are talking about, but this is the norm with companies that jump on the bandwagon. Ice energy are a long established UK company. IVT is also one of the largest European suppliers of heat pumps.

    Is there any other companies other than Ice Energy that you can recommend? i dont want to end up with a company selling us a GSHP when infact we dont really need it?

    Also i dont have underfloor heating will this be a problem?
    Is a Bipolar bear :p
  • paceinternet
    paceinternet Posts: 355 Forumite
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    Geotherm, I agree with those comments about that supplier and equipment.
    But that model has the potential to have 3,6 or 9kw of additional resistance heating support.
    If it is undersized for whatever reason, it will be running a lot more kw.
    I haven't followed all this thread.
    Do we know if the nosha123 and jdoddy systems have additional heaters?
    Maybe they can let us know.
  • nosha123
    nosha123 Posts: 39 Forumite
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    JDoddy I am most intrigued to hear your story!!! Sounds like we are in the same boat here.. and with the same supplier!
    I have emailed them already to ask for someone to do a site visit and check the set up. We had three leaks over Xmas too which didnt help as the whole system shut down.
    Will get my readings and see what Geotherm recommends... Each day that goes by is currently costing us £10!!!!!
    I suggest you get your readings too and see what the others here recommend!
    Very interesting to have found you though!!!
  • nosha123
    nosha123 Posts: 39 Forumite
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    and to paceinternet - no.. we have no additional heaters!

    More info will follow in the morning!
    Standby all!
  • lovesgshp
    lovesgshp Posts: 1,413 Forumite
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    Cardew wrote: »
    As posted earlier, in the 2 months on that tariff the OP has used approx 7,000kWh. If we 'allow' 1,000kWh for normal electrical consumption that is approx 6,000kWh taken by the GSHP.

    2 months = 61 days = 1464 hours.

    So the GSHP has used an average over 4kWh for every hour on a 24/7 basis.
    Cardew.
    I need the pump data, as without it there is no way that I can work out if there is a problem or not. 7000kw in 2 months is far too high.
    As Manuel says in Fawlty Towers: " I Know Nothing"
  • lovesgshp
    lovesgshp Posts: 1,413 Forumite
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    paceinternet wrote: »
    Geotherm, I agree with those comments about that supplier and equipment.
    But that model has the potential to have 3,6 or 9kw of additional resistance heating support.
    If it is undersized for whatever reason, it will be running a lot more kw.
    I haven't followed all this thread.
    Do we know if the nosha123 and jdoddy systems have additional heaters?
    Maybe they can let us know.
    I know that the heater boost is 3/6/9 kw, that is why I need the readings from menu 7 on the pump. We have only used 24hrs over 5 years with additional heat.
    As Manuel says in Fawlty Towers: " I Know Nothing"
  • lovesgshp
    lovesgshp Posts: 1,413 Forumite
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    dane-katie wrote: »
    Is there any other companies other than Ice Energy that you can recommend? i dont want to end up with a company selling us a GSHP when infact we dont really need it?

    Also i dont have underfloor heating will this be a problem?
    Sorry dane-katie, I do not know many suppliers in the UK. I would look up GSHP companies on the internet, and try to see those who have been established for a number of years.
    A correctly sized GSHP should be able to supply radiator heating, just make sure that it can cope with feed temperatures up to 65C.
    As Manuel says in Fawlty Towers: " I Know Nothing"
  • Cardew
    Cardew Posts: 29,037 Forumite
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    nosha123 wrote: »
    and to paceinternet - no.. we have no additional heaters!

    What paceinternet means is the heat pump itself having boosting heaters.

    Most heat pump systems have 'normal' heaters (like immersion heaters) to provide additional heating when the heat pump cannot cope with the load.

    The commonest cause of very high electricity bills is that a lot of the heating demand is being satisfied by these heaters.

    Why these heaters are cutting in, Geotherm hopefully will be able to deduce from the info you supply
  • lovesgshp
    lovesgshp Posts: 1,413 Forumite
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    edited 1 February 2011 at 10:08PM
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    This is a report that I completed about 2 weeks ago on a system that had a problem. It was resolved within 24 hrs. 14Kw output unit, 2 thermostatic controlled zones in the house 19C main floor/ 17C upper floor ..... 240 sq mtr, underfloor heating, buffer tank. DHW set at 50C.
    For explanation, the unit was installed late Dec 2009.GT6 is compressor running temp, GT8/GT9 are heat transfer fluid temperatures. GT10/GT11 are ground loops in/out. GL= ground loop

    Initial visit findings

    Ground loop pressure 0 Bar
    Alarm panel showing LP multiple times

    When getting initial operation on the system the following
    DHW:
    GT6 66.7
    GT8 readings from 52.6 - 54.0 - 55.2
    GT9 " " 48.9 - 50.1 - 50.6
    GT10/11 5.4 in/ 2.4 out

    GL pressure increased to 2 Bar
    Heating:
    GT6 65.8 71.9 72.6
    GT8 33.3 41.9 42.5
    GT9 27.6 37.4 38.1
    GT10 5.4 - 5.0
    GT11 5.0 - 1.0

    System left running as appeared to be okay, but the following alarms activated that evening:
    16.28 LP
    16.38 High HTF Delta
    17.41 LP
    19.07 LP
    At that point the unit was shut down and returned to LPG gas heating instead of using the electric cartridge.

    Fri 14th Jan

    DHW reset to 53C
    GT6 73.1 - 74.8
    GT8 55.8 - 55.6
    GT9 52.1 - 52.4


    GL Pressure 1.Bar
    With HTF pump set on level 2 speed the following for heating:
    GT6 78.3 reducing to 72.1
    GT8 36.1 - 37.0
    GT9 31.0 - 32.8

    Speed reset on HTF pump to level 1:

    Heating cycle: ( untimed )
    GT6 72.1 72.6 72.9
    GT8 41.5 41.8 41.8
    GT9 33.8 34.1 34.1
    GT10 5.2 5.0 4.9
    GT11 1.5 1.4 1.3

    2nd test @14.00 hrs on DHW

    GT6 76.7 80.7 84.0 87.3 89.2 Off
    GT8 51.0 55.6 57.2 58.3 59.7
    GT9 47.8 50.3 50.9 53.0 54.6

    Heating: On 27.4/Off 32.4. Readings @ 5 min intervals
    GT6 57.0 63.5 66.9 69.4 71.2
    GT8 36.1 37.7 39.2 40.2 41.1
    GT9 28.5 30.0 31.4 32.7 33.8
    GT10 5.7 5.5 5.4 4.9 4.8
    GT11 1.7 1.7 1.6 1.2 1.2


    Final test @ 16.00 hrs. Heating only @5 min intervals

    Off temp 33.1C

    GT6 59.7 63.2 65.0 67.7 70.2
    GT8 37.2 38.4 38.9 40.0 41.1
    GT9 29.4 30.2 30.8 32.0 33.2
    GT10 5.7 5.6 5.6 5.3 5.0
    GT11 1.7 1.6 1.6 1.4 1.1

    Total pump running time since installation = 2072 hrs
    GL flow rate = 14ltr min
    % DHW/ Heating = 16/84%
    GL pressure left @ 1.2 Bar

    Electrical boost over 1 year 6 hours
    As Manuel says in Fawlty Towers: " I Know Nothing"
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