Electric cars

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  • neilmcl
    neilmcl Posts: 19,460 Forumite
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    This look quite an interesting prospect - https://www.honestjohn.co.uk/road-tests/hyundai/hyundai-kona-electric-64kwh-2018-road-test/
  • AdrianC
    AdrianC Posts: 42,189 Forumite
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    neilmcl wrote: »
    This look quite an interesting prospect - https://www.honestjohn.co.uk/road-tests/hyundai/hyundai-kona-electric-64kwh-2018-road-test/
    The Kona shares the i20/Kia Stonic/Kia Rio platform, so you can see exactly where they're going with it, and you can bet there'll be a fair bit of the grubbies shared with the Soul and Ioniq.


    No great surprise at all that parts-bin-stirring is starting to really happen with EVs, too. Or that the Koreans are the ones starting it.
  • zeupater
    zeupater Posts: 5,355 Forumite
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    AdrianC wrote: »
    .. TBF, the market's hardly encouraging them by buying the ones they do offer. e-Up! and e-Golf sales have been minimal.
    Hi

    What kind of additional encouragement would you think VW would need to increase their interest in EVs beyond their notification to investors that they'll be spending the equivalent of $80billion of their money on developing & launching new EV models in the period 2018-2025 (Approx 4x PSA+Toyota combined!) ... looks like they already have a stunning cunning plan to me! ... :D

    HTH
    Z
    "We are what we repeatedly do, excellence then is not an act, but a habit. " ...... Aristotle
    B)
  • silverwhistle
    silverwhistle Posts: 3,791 Forumite
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    Hyundai seem to be getting something right (apart from volumes!) with their designed as EV from the start Ioniq (even if the hybrids muddy the water a bit): in the summer it would appear people are getting over 5 miles per kWh in certain circumstances and even good results on motorway trips. Even the Soul EV variant seems to have good figures. though it's pretty ugly.


    Correction; even over 6mpkWh for some.
  • AdrianC
    AdrianC Posts: 42,189 Forumite
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    Good - an actual "fuel efficiency" improvement, rather than simply "slap a bigger fuel tank in to stretch the headline range".
  • Martyn1981
    Martyn1981 Posts: 14,766 Forumite
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    AdrianC wrote: »
    I assume you mean PSA?

    GM are cancelling the supply contracts for all non-Opel-built GM cars, so the Opel(/Vauxhall) range is going to change markedly over the next year or so, with all the GM Korea range (Viva, Mokka etc) disappearing, too. The same's happening the other way round, with Holden and Buick globally losing the Opel-sourced models.

    Under the sale contract, GM have to supply Bolt's (Ampera-E's) and parts etc, so long as the Bolt is in production in the US.

    To avoid having to supply them (as they lose money) they put the price up immediately.
    Mart. Cardiff. 5.58 kWp PV systems (3.58 ESE & 2.0 WNW). Two A2A units for cleaner heating.

    For general PV advice please see the PV FAQ thread on the Green & Ethical Board.
  • Martyn1981
    Martyn1981 Posts: 14,766 Forumite
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    RichardD1970 wrote: »
    Don't know, lack of will from senior management, stuck in their ways, not wanting to change the status quo. Lack of belief in the product, poor marketing (I for one have never heard of a Bolt) any number of reasons..

    The facts are that the actual manufacture of an EV is exactly the same as an ICE car except for the powertrain, which is much simpler in an EV than an ICE, which needs an engine, gearbox, diffs etc all connected physically to each other with big metal gears and drive shafts, made even more complicated when you add in 4 wheel drive.

    Agree with your last paragraph, which is why JLR are producing a new modular platform (MLA) designed for EV from the ground up as well as hybrid.

    https://auto.economictimes.indiatimes.com/news/passenger-vehicle/cars/how-jlr-is-preparing-for-the-electrifying-future/63329591

    Again, if the cars are so similar, and EV's are easier, and experience in the auto industry is so important, then 110yr old GM should be able to build a car that's not quite as good as a Tesla 3, but sells at the same price, for a profit.

    So how come production is so small, and they lose $k's on every car, whilst the 'newboy' Tesla has an estimated 30% profit margin on the 3 ........ if it's so simple?

    So it's easy for you to say that the cars are easy to build, but that doesn't seem to reflect what is actually happening, and you note the complete 're-start' as carried out by JLR since EV's and ICE's are very different animals.
    Mart. Cardiff. 5.58 kWp PV systems (3.58 ESE & 2.0 WNW). Two A2A units for cleaner heating.

    For general PV advice please see the PV FAQ thread on the Green & Ethical Board.
  • Gloomendoom
    Gloomendoom Posts: 16,550 Forumite
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    From an assembly point of view, they aren't that different. The power unit is generally smaller and the fuel tank is bigger but that is as far as it goes.
  • jamiesb
    jamiesb Posts: 18 Forumite
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    Tesla does have some quality control issues when it comes to fit and finish, somewhat akin to american cars of the late 70s and into the 80s. My guess is the biggest cost of an electric car is the battery. I think Tesla are smart though in that they have plans for the charging infrastructure and not just the cars themselves. I do think that's the way to go for electric car manufacturers, get involved at every level of the electric car ecosystem, diversify income which hopefully means faster adoption and lower costs for the markets. Easier said than done though, and Tesla (Elon Musk actually) do have a tendency to overpromise and underdeliver (especially when it comes to deadlines).
  • RichardD1970
    RichardD1970 Posts: 3,795 Forumite
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    Martyn1981 wrote: »
    Again, if the cars are so similar, and EV's are easier, and experience in the auto industry is so important, then 110yr old GM should be able to build a car that's not quite as good as a Tesla 3, but sells at the same price, for a profit.

    So how come production is so small, and they lose $k's on every car, whilst the 'newboy' Tesla has an estimated 30% profit margin on the 3 ........ if it's so simple?

    So it's easy for you to say that the cars are easy to build, but that doesn't seem to reflect what is actually happening, and you note the complete 're-start' as carried out by JLR since EV's and ICE's are very different animals.

    Again, I don't know what GM's problem with EVs is and I don't really care.

    As to JLR's "re-start" as you put it, yes they are building an architecture from the ground up as a platform for their EV cars because it is simpler and easier to do than try to modify the current platforms to adapt to EV, and will produce a better result.

    This is nothing new anyway, the last new platform JLR developed was D7a for Jag XE, XF, F-Pace and RR Velar, and D7u for RR Sport. New platforms are always in development

    When it comes to production EVs and ICE cars are not different animals at all.

    The majority of the building of the car is EXACTLY the same for EVs as for ICE.

    The same process for Stampings (Press Shop), in fact some major components, ie the floor pan, will be a much simpler panel so easier to press.

    The same BIW process, where the floor and body panels are welded/riveted/glued together.

    The same Paint process.

    Virtually the same Final Assembly and Trim process. In fact that is another part which will be easier at some points because they don't have to manoeuvre large, very heavy ICEs and gearboxes, diffs, exhaust systems etc into place, just bolt in a battery and a couple of relatively small and light motors.
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