Electric cars

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  • silverwhistle
    silverwhistle Posts: 3,794 Forumite
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    To be honest I wouldn't buy a VW ICE either, as I'm not prepared to pay the premium for my motoring needs. I've found 9 year old Hyundai i20, and 12 year old Fiesta and Fabia quite capable of full loaded five hundred mile continental trips. These days it's the driver who can't manage them..


    I'm sure there's demand there for EVs, indeed Hyundai are nowhere near meeting the demand for theirs, and that means no discounts and not much of a second hand market for a bit either. I'm going to have to wait..
  • AdrianC
    AdrianC Posts: 42,189 Forumite
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    almillar wrote: »
    Last time I checked the e-Up! is twice the price of the petrol one. e-Golf seems decent, but dealers don't WANT to sell them to customers.
    Compare them to equivalent EVs.


    e-Up! £26k list - Cit C-Zero £21k list - Smart ForFour £22k list.
  • Gloomendoom
    Gloomendoom Posts: 16,550 Forumite
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    NBLondon wrote: »
    That's surprising... I assumed it would be the same size as the E-Pace.

    It's actually wider and longer but lower.
  • Martyn1981
    Martyn1981 Posts: 14,800 Forumite
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    RichardD1970 wrote: »
    Not really in terms of manufacture. The actual building of the car will be pretty much the same. Pressings, BIW, Paint and final assembly/trim will be almost identical. With only the powertrain being different.

    Infact EVs will be easier due to not having a whopping big ICE, gearbox, transmission etc to fit in.

    Then GM with 110 years of experience, and a 1yr head start on the Tesla 3 should have no problem out producing Tesla and making a larger profit on each Bolt (the Tesla 3 has an estimated 30% profit margin). So how come GM are only producing 2 or 3 thousand a month and losing money on every one? If EV's are so easy, then why has GM tried to avoid having to supply Bolt's to PAS (under the agreement as part of the sale of Opel/Vauxhall) by putting up the price by about €9k?

    Kind of interesting that the Bolt got the highest scores for GM from the Consumer Reports even as a brand new car, but was largely designed by LG.

    The guys who are really trying, like Nissan, Renault etc. seem to be able to do it well. But the half-hearted 'conversion' of ICE's just doesn't cut it.
    Mart. Cardiff. 5.58 kWp PV systems (3.58 ESE & 2.0 WNW). Two A2A units for cleaner heating.

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  • AdrianC
    AdrianC Posts: 42,189 Forumite
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    Martyn1981 wrote: »
    If EV's are so easy, then why has GM tried to avoid having to supply Bolt's to PAS (under the agreement as part of the sale of Opel/Vauxhall) by putting up the price by about €9k?
    I assume you mean PSA?

    GM are cancelling the supply contracts for all non-Opel-built GM cars, so the Opel(/Vauxhall) range is going to change markedly over the next year or so, with all the GM Korea range (Viva, Mokka etc) disappearing, too. The same's happening the other way round, with Holden and Buick globally losing the Opel-sourced models.
  • almillar
    almillar Posts: 8,621 Forumite
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    That's surprising... I assumed it would be the same size as the E-Pace.

    Nope, significantly lower. I'd call it a tall hatchback (with half decent ground clearance) rather than SUV height.
    Compare them to equivalent EVs.
    e-Up! £26k list - Cit C-Zero £21k list - Smart ForFour £22k list.

    Indeed. These are all poor sellers for different reasons though. I'd love the Smart, and test drove one, great fun, but a 17kWh battery, and 7kW charging (upgrading to 22kW at end of year) is too much of a compromise. And the prices aren't like that when you're doing PCP. I was comparing VW's 'poor sales' with the likes of Nissan, Renault, BMW who have managed to sell plenty of cars.
  • RichardD1970
    RichardD1970 Posts: 3,795 Forumite
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    Martyn1981 wrote: »
    Then GM with 110 years of experience, and a 1yr head start on the Tesla 3 should have no problem out producing Tesla and making a larger profit on each Bolt (the Tesla 3 has an estimated 30% profit margin). So how come GM are only producing 2 or 3 thousand a month and losing money on every one? If EV's are so easy, then why has GM tried to avoid having to supply Bolt's to PAS (under the agreement as part of the sale of Opel/Vauxhall) by putting up the price by about €9k?

    Kind of interesting that the Bolt got the highest scores for GM from the Consumer Reports even as a brand new car, but was largely designed by LG.

    The guys who are really trying, like Nissan, Renault etc. seem to be able to do it well. But the half-hearted 'conversion' of ICE's just doesn't cut it.

    Don't know, lack of will from senior management, stuck in their ways, not wanting to change the status quo. Lack of belief in the product, poor marketing (I for one have never heard of a Bolt) any number of reasons..

    The facts are that the actual manufacture of an EV is exactly the same as an ICE car except for the powertrain, which is much simpler in an EV than an ICE, which needs an engine, gearbox, diffs etc all connected physically to each other with big metal gears and drive shafts, made even more complicated when you add in 4 wheel drive.

    Agree with your last paragraph, which is why JLR are producing a new modular platform (MLA) designed for EV from the ground up as well as hybrid.

    https://auto.economictimes.indiatimes.com/news/passenger-vehicle/cars/how-jlr-is-preparing-for-the-electrifying-future/63329591
  • AdrianC
    AdrianC Posts: 42,189 Forumite
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    RichardD1970 wrote: »
    poor marketing (I for one have never heard of a Bolt)
    Opel Ampera-e in Europe, not sold in the UK - likely sales didn't warrant RHD development.
  • tedted
    tedted Posts: 374 Forumite
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    the vauxhall ampera was for sale in the uk in rhd form
  • AdrianC
    AdrianC Posts: 42,189 Forumite
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    tedted wrote: »
    the vauxhall ampera was for sale in the uk in rhd form
    The Ampera (Chev Volt hybrid, 2012-15) is a different car to the Ampera-e (Chev Bolt EV, 2017-on). The second-generation Volt (hybrid again, 2015-on) isn't sold here, either.
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