Electric cars
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DELETED USER wrote:So people who don't have a driveway, the people who probably have lower incomes, will be paying the most.
But sadly that's how a capitalist society operates.
If you have a big mortgage deposit >40% you get a lower interest rate than someone who can only put down a 10% deposit.
If you are on a 'pay as go' energy meter because you have defaulted past bills etc you pay more per kWh than someone on a monthly direct debit.
If you haven't got a good credit rating you have to go to payday loan companies for credit with crazy APR% versus a someone who can access a standard bank loan.
We are lucky enough to have the income to buy an EV, but once bought the daily running costs of our EV at 3p per mile for fuel, no servicing costs, £0 VED is less than a £500 banger, and by some margin.
However if we had to charge our EV on a public chargers, some are going costing £0.59p per kWH which translate 20p per mile in fuel costs, so SIX time more costly than charging up at home!!0 -
You call it "capitalist society" - it's simply risk versus return.
A high LTV mortgage is a higher risk of the lender losing money than a low LTV one - not only is the higher-LTV borrower more likely to default, because their finances are less solid, but if the property is repossessed, there's a higher risk of the sale price not covering the debt.
To supply electricity to a creditworthy customer, especially a home owner, carries very low risk.
To supply electricity to a non-creditworthy customer, especially on a pre-pay meter, carries a higher risk and higher cost of operation. Some of the pre-pay cost has to go in commission to the operators of the payment infrastructure, the local shop/petrol station/whatever.
To lend to a sub-prime borrower carries higher risk of default. To lend on a very short period means the fixed costs of loan origination are a much higher proportion of the return than a long period.
To charge an EV at home costs zero to install the infrastructure, and carries zero risk for the provider.
To install and operate a public charging station carries substantial installation and operation expenses, and carries a reasonable risk - maintenance, vandalism, accidental damage, electrical faults, reputational damage etc etc.0 -
You call it "capitalist society" - it's simply risk versus return.
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Justify it however you want, the reality is the poorest in society today pay more to survive/live than those more fortunate both relatively and absolutely.
EV charging is another way those who have the least will be charged the most.0 -
But sadly that's how a capitalist society operates.
If you have a big mortgage deposit >40% you get a lower interest rate than someone who can only put down a 10% deposit.
If you are on a 'pay as go' energy meter because you have defaulted past bills etc you pay more per kWh than someone on a monthly direct debit.
If you haven't got a good credit rating you have to go to payday loan companies for credit with crazy APR% versus a someone who can access a standard bank loan.
We are lucky enough to have the income to buy an EV, but once bought the daily running costs of our EV at 3p per mile for fuel, no servicing costs, £0 VED is less than a £500 banger, and by some margin.
However if we had to charge our EV on a public chargers, some are going costing £0.59p per kWH which translate 20p per mile in fuel costs, so SIX time more costly than charging up at home!!
The ones costing £0.59 are fundamentally different chargers to any you could install at home.
You are paying for the convenience of rapid charging of upwards of 100kW. It's no surprise it is substantially more expensive than home charging.
In contrast, a public 7kW charger will be only marginally more expensive, as demonstrated with my use case.0 -
How long till we get 20k ones? Can't they work out an way to convert our current cars.
This what those climate change brigade need to be bothering the government about and big businesses.0 -
DELETED USER wrote:The problem with that is people who have home charging will be paying a hell of a lot less than those who don't for the electricity. So people who don't have a driveway, the people who probably have lower incomes, will be paying the most.
They could possibly fix it by having some system that billed public charging to your home bill.
I think there will be lots of solutions, and I suspect the 'hell of a lot less' will only apply when using fast chargers. In the case of 7kW chargers, they may well be free to promote business as per those supermarket deals mentioned a few months ago, where fast charging had a fee but 7kW was free.
Think of the cost to the supermarket. They often fight for custom offering 5p or 10p off a litre of petrol, that's around £2-£5 to them, for around 20-40 miles of city driving when fulling up.
For one hours charging at 7kW, it'll cost them around 70p, and provide 20-30 miles of city driving.Mart. Cardiff. 5.58 kWp PV systems (3.58 ESE & 2.0 WNW). Two A2A units for cleaner heating.
For general PV advice please see the PV FAQ thread on the Green & Ethical Board.0 -
How long till we get 20k ones? Can't they work out an way to convert our current cars.
This what those climate change brigade need to be bothering the government about and big businesses.
Do you mean 20kW chargers? Fast chargers now range from 50-350kW.
For home install there will be problems as most homes have 80-100A supplies, so 20kW could push past the limits. Rolling out 3phase supplies for new properties would sort this, but perhaps a sledehammer to crack a nut when vehicles can be charged all night, and average day mileage in the UK is about 22 miles, or ~6kWh, or ~1hr at 7kW.Mart. Cardiff. 5.58 kWp PV systems (3.58 ESE & 2.0 WNW). Two A2A units for cleaner heating.
For general PV advice please see the PV FAQ thread on the Green & Ethical Board.0 -
The ones costing £0.59 are fundamentally different chargers to any you could install at home.
You are paying for the convenience of rapid charging of upwards of 100kW. It's no surprise it is substantially more expensive than home charging.
In contrast, a public 7kW charger will be only marginally more expensive, as demonstrated with my use case.
The problem is using a 7KW public charger is inconvenient, it means your essentially trading time to use the charger and end up been tied to certain destination. 100KW+ rapid chargers deliver charge rate fast enough to just about free you from time constraints compared to 7KW charging but comes at a cost.
I've done coming up to 50K in various EVs now, I can count on one hand I've used a public 7KW post, its simply much easier and cheaper to charge at home. Even with rapid chargers I've only use them for about 5% of my total mileage, and thats with me having 'free' access to Tesla Superchargers, I value time over saving 3p per mile. At the prices Shell/Insavlot/Fastned what per kWh I can see my self never using them unless I was really really desperate, the cost difference between 8p per kWh at home versus upto 60p per kWh is just too great.
The end result is the same, with EVs if you don't have home charging your end up paying more, and substantially more if you rely on public rapid charging, not to mention the time you waste versus plugging in at home to charge up overnight.0 -
The problem is using a 7KW public charger is inconvenient, it means your essentially trading time to use the charger and end up been tied to certain destination. 100KW+ rapid chargers deliver charge rate fast enough to just about free you from time constraints compared to 7KW charging but comes at a cost.
I've done coming up to 50K in various EVs now, I can count on one hand I've used a public 7KW post, its simply much easier and cheaper to charge at home. Even with rapid chargers I've only use them for about 5% of my total mileage, and thats with me having 'free' access to Tesla Superchargers, I value time over saving 3p per mile. At the prices Shell/Insavlot/Fastned what per kWh I can see my self never using them unless I was really really desperate, the cost difference between 8p per kWh at home versus upto 60p per kWh is just too great.
The end result is the same, with EVs if you don't have home charging your end up paying more, and substantially more if you rely on public rapid charging, not to mention the time you waste versus plugging in at home to charge up overnight.
I don't trade any of my time. Rather than parked on the street (or my drive way charging had I off-street parking) I just park it at the car park by the public charger...
I just fit it around my usual routine. Typically on a Sunday morning I drive it to the car park, plug in, go for my run. Then I go home and leave it parked up for a few hours before walking into town to do my food shop, then drive it back home. Before my EV I would have gone on my run, then walked into town and back with my shopping. If anything, it helps with carrying my heavy shopping back!
Or I fit it in with other chargers close to where I am travelling.
To me, the danger is not having enough chargers that I can't do this because they are in use or they are out of service. Which is why I am fighting so hard to ensure the 6 new chargers being installed by my council are at least 7kW, and not the proposed 3.6kW.
I agree that costing can be too extortionate, but ironically it is Polar who I think has a fair pricing system, despite many complaining about their subscription service. Even their rapids only charge £0.108 per kWh, which I often use when I visit other towns.0 -
How many parking spaces are there in total in the car park, and how many chargers?I don't trade any of my time. Rather than parked on the street (or my drive way charging had I off-street parking) I just park it at the car park by the public charger...
So having an electric vehicle means you're now driving more urban miles?I just fit it around my usual routine. Typically on a Sunday morning I drive it to the car park, plug in, go for my run. Then I go home and leave it parked up for a few hours before walking into town to do my food shop, then drive it back home. Before my EV I would have gone on my run, then walked into town and back with my shopping. If anything, it helps with carrying my heavy shopping back!0
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