IMPORTANT: Please make sure your posts do not contain any personally identifiable information (both your own and that of others). When uploading images, please take care that you have redacted all personal information including QR codes, number plates and reference numbers.

Parking Awareness Service (PAS) PCN

Options
1235720

Comments

  • johjames
    johjames Posts: 119 Forumite
    First Anniversary First Post Name Dropper Combo Breaker
    Options
    Castle wrote: »
    You could always send a F.O.I request to the DVLA and ask copies of any correspondence, (including audits), between P.A.S and the DVLA over the last year/2 years for example.

    The DPA would only apply to the landowner if they were a person; Companies are not covered under the DPA.

    Thanks Castle, I will certainly do that.
  • johjames
    johjames Posts: 119 Forumite
    First Anniversary First Post Name Dropper Combo Breaker
    Options
    So I've received a letter before claim from Debt Logic and I've penned the following response, for which I'm very grateful to Coupon-M for their previous post in another thread which provided the template. As you can see my response doesn't address the lack of detail in their letter before claim, although I could add this. I'd be very grateful for your opinions and advice before I post off this to them. Thanks.

    To Debt Logic Pre-Litigation Manager,

    Cease and desist from contacting me - this is now unwarranted harassment and your client is causing significant distress to me and my family.

    Your letter and previous communications clearly display my complete lack of liability as outlined below [my bold]:

    1. You letter before claim dated 2018 refers to me as the !!!8216;driver!!!8217; of the vehicle in question, despite this being untrue - !!!8217;We write to you, the driver of the vehicle to advise that if payment or adequate response is not received in 30 days no further correspondence will be sent. The next letter you receive will be court proceedings!!!8217;.
    !!!8216;On 2017, you were granted a limited contractual licence to enter the private land at which is managed and operated by our client. Of which the driver agreed when parking to adhere to the Terms & Conditions of the site!!!8217;.
    !!!8216;On 2017 you breached the Terms & Conditions [Reason: Parked longer than the period allocated to their vehicle!!!8217;s registration]. The breach resulted in our client issuing a Parking Charge Notice.

    2. Your client acknowledged in their letter dated 27th February 2018 that the Parking Charge Notice which they issued was !!!8216;NonPOFA!!!8217;. You are of course aware that outwith the POFA there is no keeper liability.
    It must also be noted that your client in this very same letter stated !!!8216;The PCN sent to you was NonPOFA as the DVLA carried out an audit (to ensure legitimacy of the request) causing the issue of the PCN to be delayed!!!8217;. The DVLA have confirmed to me in writing, that no audit was being undertaken at this time which would have delayed the issue of the PCN and it is therefore readily apparent that your client is acting in a dishonest manner, bringing the DVLA into disrepute.

    This continued contact and demands for money from me, a person who is not liable in law, as I was not the driver and POFA was flagrantly not adhered to you by your client, is a significant nuisance that is continuing to affect my peace of mind and that of my family, distracting me from my work and my daily life. Hours of my time have already been wasted on this matter, only to receive more threatening and misleading letters. The entire rogue ticketing operation and the bombardment of legalese and threatening letters indicates a course of unwarranted harassment in pursuit of money I do not owe to anyone.

    This baseless but nasty financial attack on me is causing me serious distress (Ferguson v British Gas Trading Ltd. [2009] EWCA Civ 46 is the authority in such a case). Should your client proceed, I will have no hesitation in seeking my full costs on the indemnity basis, and will invite the Court to dismiss the claim and to award such Defence witness costs as are permissible, pursuant to CPR 27.14.

    I repeat - you know I am not liable in law, outwith the POFA, there is no 'keeper liability'.

    Stop writing misleading letters. Stop writing any letters. Your client has no cause of action against me and must take it up with the driver, and should have done so in a timely manner, establishing on the day who that party was, if they felt there was a parking charge due.

    Take formal note, and tell your clients: This is a formal cease and desist letter, and a Section 10 notice under the DPA. I have already issued a Section 10 notice to your client on 2018 via electronic communication, which has been ignored which is extremely troubling. You and your client must now stop processing my data and delete it from your records after cancelling the meritless 'charge' you are chasing, to my huge distress.

    If your client proceeds to court, I will file a counter-claim in excess of the sum your client is unreasonably demanding, seeking Vidall Hall compensation for my distress that I am noting and recounting to family and friends on a week-by-week basis, as evidence to support my position. I will have no hesitation in seeking the full amount of damages the Judge sees fit to award.

    I am aware of the following two cases in the past year:

    - on Friday 16th March, in case D8HW7G7P in the Slough County Court, another notorious ex-clamper parking firm (UKPC) lost an unreasonable claim against a beleaguered motorist and were found liable for the Defendant's ordinary costs and his £500 counter-claim for distress for a DPA breach by processing his data contrary to the Data Protection Principles.

    - in May 2017, in case D6GM2199 CEL v Mr B, Bury County Court, before DJ Osborne, a motorist was awarded £900 because another ex-clamper parking company of the same type as your client (in this case, Civil Enforcement Limited) committed data protection breaches against him. Mr B. was the vehicle keeper but was not the driver on the day. As the NTK was not POFA compliant (same as your client's NTK), the parking firm had no valid claim against the keeper. In addition, Wright Hassall had acted unreasonably in artificially inflating the claim from £100 to £300 by adding spurious amounts.
    Mr B filed a counterclaim and this was upheld. In his judgment, DJ Osborne ruled a data breach had occurred, the tort of damages was applicable and that £500 was not an unreasonable amount in the circumstances. He added an additional £405 in costs, part of which were awarded on the indemnity basis, under rule 27.14.2(g) for the unreasonable behaviour of CEL. The Judge also stated he was disappointed in the claimant bringing an unfounded case, and in the behaviour of Wright Hassall who were otherwise a respectable law firm.

    I urge you to avoid the same, and confirm this charge is immediately cancelled and my data as registered keeper is removed from all records held by you and your clients.
  • Quentin
    Quentin Posts: 40,405 Forumite
    Options
    As long as you realise a cease and desist won't stop a claim being issued!
  • KeithP
    KeithP Posts: 37,710 Forumite
    Name Dropper First Post First Anniversary
    Options
    johjames wrote: »
    So I've received a letter before claim from Debt Logic...
    Are you sure Debt Logic have sent you a Letter Before Claim?

    Or are they perhaps just threatening?

    Maybe you can show us the letter?

    The usual response to debt collector's letters is to ignore them.
  • Grimble
    Grimble Posts: 455 Forumite
    First Anniversary First Post
    Options
    Debt Logic is another of his companies, he tries it on.
  • Umkomaas
    Umkomaas Posts: 41,401 Forumite
    First Anniversary Name Dropper First Post Photogenic
    Options
    What did the DVLA say when you put forward your Freedom of Information Request back in April (as advised by Castle)?

    They will have been required by law to have responded to you by now.
    Please note, we are not a legal advice forum. I personally don't get involved in critiquing court case Defences/Witness Statements, so unable to help on that front. Please don't ask. .

    I provide only my personal opinion, it is not a legal opinion, it is simply a personal one. I am not a lawyer.

    Give a man a fish, and you feed him for a day; show him how to catch fish, and you feed him for a lifetime.

    Private Parking Firms - Killing the High Street
  • johjames
    johjames Posts: 119 Forumite
    First Anniversary First Post Name Dropper Combo Breaker
    Options
    Quentin, thanks, I do.
    KeithP, I've attached the letter. It seems to be a Letter Before Claim, however I'd be grateful for other opinions.
    Umkomaas, The DVLA said 'The Agency has not undertaken any audits, during the period in question, on Parking Awareness Services Ltd (PAS). Also, and as advised previously, a DVLA audit would not be expected to delay the processing of requests for DVLA data. If an audit is being conducted, that should not affect the ability to request data from DVLA'.
    Of course this means that PAS were flagrantly lying and shifting blame without cause to the DVLA, when they wrote to me stating that their demand was nonPOFA because of delays caused by a DVLA audit. Thanks all, your expertise and advice is valued.
    in60hx.jpg
  • Quentin
    Quentin Posts: 40,405 Forumite
    Options
    Did they enclose any forms to return to them? (Not that you would,!!,)
  • Grimble
    Grimble Posts: 455 Forumite
    First Anniversary First Post
    Options
    Debt Logic, Vanquish are all part of Mathews scam, you could reply asking for all the paperwork they intend to rely on in court and an unredacted contract with the land owner if you want a laugh.
  • beamerguy
    beamerguy Posts: 17,587 Forumite
    First Anniversary Photogenic Name Dropper First Post
    Options
    PPC ticket came from Parking Awareness

    As Debt Logic is owned by the same person, was
    this transfered internally by PA adding a fake charge
    or sold.

    What right does Debt Logic have to issue an LBA ????
Meet your Ambassadors

Categories

  • All Categories
  • 343.3K Banking & Borrowing
  • 250.1K Reduce Debt & Boost Income
  • 449.8K Spending & Discounts
  • 235.4K Work, Benefits & Business
  • 608.3K Mortgages, Homes & Bills
  • 173.1K Life & Family
  • 248K Travel & Transport
  • 1.5M Hobbies & Leisure
  • 15.9K Discuss & Feedback
  • 15.1K Coronavirus Support Boards