taking responsibilty to get me where I want to be

efes_shareholder · 10 September 2018 at 12:39PM

Hi FTB - I also lapsed and need to get back on it , I will add my demise into my new update

Buckle up guys , its a long one

I have been away for a week , albeit lovely and relaxing - In hindsight it didn't live up to my expectations.
I hired a villa with friends and it was somewhat isolated meaning cabs in to town and back and many days spent in the same company doing not very much
It felt like I was away visiting family - It was nice and relaxing and there were some moments where not everyone got on and in hindsight it was a wrong move to be in such close proximaty to each other
We would have been better off on a holiday complex
The neighbours complained to the owner at the slightest noise and even if people didnt use the shower before entering the communal pool and we had an overnight intruder who cleared my friend out of £200. Several properties in the neighbourhood were hit on the same night
Anyway , put it all down to experience, tried to make the best of a bad thing and learnt that I would not do a private villa hire again , it isn't for me

When I was away , I became an auntie again - wonderful news. It is lovely having a baby amongst us again

Also had to help my son out as his summer job were messing about with his wages meaning he didn't have enough to cover his uni house bills so mum stepped in to ensure he wasn't hit with charges for direct debit bounce backs - It will come back to me once his grant hits his account at the end of the month.

More concerning it appears that my mum has money issues of her own and has managed to rack up her own credit card bill
This is frustrating - A while ago we organised an equity release on the house to make her retirement slightly more comfortable , Although a percentage was used for a much needed new kitchen the remainder should have been enough to assist her through her twilight years.
This doesn't appear to have been the case and other then smoking like an absolute chimney I really cannot work out how she has managed to drain her funds and also acquire a 3k credit card bill.
My sister owed her a nominal amount and she was chasing this with her before I went away saying as it was the end of the month , she was a bit short - I checked she had enough before I went away and she said as my housekeep would hit her account in the next couple of days she would be fine.
I returned home at the weekend and there was hardly any food in the house , she asked me to pop to the shops for a couple of bits along with a pack of ciggies and gave me a credit card again saying she was a bit short ! I took the card and when I got to the shop the card was not authorised so I ended up paying for it all myself ( this isn't the problem)
I took the card back and diplomatically said as it was a fresh card she may need to contact the issuer as it may need authorising

Yesterday I noticed another card ( known for a high APR ) on the windowsill alongside the one which was rejected so I decided to broach the subject
I entered the discussion by saying that I hoped she wasnt using it as the APR was a disgrace , she said she wasn't and then within a few moments said she had used it , I told her I was concerned that she had mentioned she was short before I went away however she was now short again within days of my housekeep being paid ( She earns well out of me , I cost her nowhere near what I pay her but I am grateful not to have to rent privately so its not a problem)
She said she had been hit with some higher then usual bills and as she only had her pension on top of my money sometimes she had no choice not to use the credit card

It entered in to a slight role reversal - I didn't touch on the fact that the retirement pot had already been drained and more that if she is having to use the card for basic groceries , she is obviously overspending in other areas and we need to go through her ingoings and outgoings as she now has one card which i assume is maxed out and a fresh new card to mount up

I am a fine one to judge which I am trying my utmost not too but she knows how I am trying to become debt free and I have said to her that she needs to halt the card culture now - I cannot fathom out how she is in the situation ( she has had a few small PPI payouts in the last year ) except she smokes far too much ( somewhere in the region of 20 - 30 a day ) which would equate to around £320 a month !!!! and doesn't think twice about corner shop shopping ( a loaf of bread is £1.50 odd where as I can pick it up enroute home for about 55p if only she would ask !! )
She doesn't go out or buy new clothes but she chugs like a chimney

I don't want to intrude on her privacy but I have said to her we need an SOA for her and the use of my budget tracker and she can't continue to smoke like she does if she cannot sustain the cost
Feel like a bit of a hypocrite there as I have slipped off of the wagon ( I will be getting back on again )

Its some what frustrating - If life is a struggle I will help her more and up my housekeep but I won't do that if she is going to spend it on little grey boxes of cancer sticks
I also worry how she will ever manage if I move out and she does not have the income of my rent

efes_shareholder · 11 September 2018 at 11:06AM

They tell you if you look then you may not like what you find.

My mums recent activity re her finances and there being a lack of funds to her have led me to delve and now I have put myself in a predicament

When I asked her how come she was short when I had just weighed my input in to the account and she didnt really give a direct answer

Now I know why

I hate having invaded her privacy however she was asleep last night when i got home from work and I took a moment checking out the browsing history on the PC - c/card applications and searches , home work searches , loan searches - All this was an instant red flag and although I wanted to broach it I wasn't sure I would get an honest answer

This morning rightly or wrongly I have accessed her credit files ( feel free to judge , I'm not proud)
The situation is far worse then I thought - I was aware of 2 credit cards , there are in fact 4
Two mail order accounts also

The balances come to 5 figures with min payments which fully explain why the pot was dry when it came to putting food in the house despite my housekeep for the month having been credited

I really do not know how I am going to address this - its her business not mine but with two card applications made in the last week , It appears her solution is to acquire more credit for a short term fix

I can't say that I am not quite shocked and also disapointed - A fair portion of her house equity was made available in 2016 and was supposed to supplement her pension and make life more comfortable for the foreseeable future ( prob equated to an average annual salary if not more ) , Even knowing that most of us cannot identify what the money we owe was spent on , there is seriously nothing which represents anywhere near the money that has spent over the last 2 years

A new bed and a new kitchen yes but these amounted to 7.5k at most and the kitchen was funded from the house equity so not a debt

I'm shocked and I am stunned and I need to digress and work out where we go from here

I sent her my budget sheet and offered to go through hers with her but I am pretty sure she will not tell me the extent of the situation

I said to her over the weekend that I more then anyone knew the effect of using credit to supplement money we didnt have available to spend

1200 has been added to her personal debt this year and I couldn't even begin to account for it or look around and show you where it is in the house

I guess this heightens more the link between depression and debt

How do I handle this ?

Its been a bit of a bomb shell that my mothers situation is far worse then my own

enthusiasticsaver · 11 September 2018 at 12:51PM

I am not sure you can handle this not least because it involves your mum realising there is a problem. You can offer advice and support and stop enabling her (by buying cigarettes etc) but she needs to want to sort herself out and from the sound of it she is depressed if she is not taking care of herself or the house. I am surprised your sister accepts childcare from her especially if the house is full of smoke. Has your mum been to the GP both about stopping smoking and maybe some therapy/medication for ADs?

Your mums situation sounds dire, not least because presumably at some point you will want a place of your own again and she will lose your rent. However we cannot take responsibility for others financial decisions, even relatives. She is obviously spending more than she has coming in (£320 on cigarettes!!!) and her short term fixes of taking on more cards will result in a debt spiral. Has she borrowed against the equity or done equity release? Both poor decisions if she is retired and on a limited income. She would have done better to sell up and downsize if that is an option although I would have to say I am not a fan of equity release.

efes_shareholder · 11 September 2018 at 2:56PM

Hi ET

We took advise and proceeded with an equity release , it wasn't an ideal choice but my step father was very ill which we didnt know at the time was terminal and with my mums own problems it was more suitable to them then to have the upheaval of a move.
We all agreed it would be better for her to stay in her own home and since she had worked hard all her life and secured the house despite my fathers absence it seemed only right that she had access to some cash - although she has always been good with money , she paid her mortgage off and was working well past her retirement but any ££ she had were tied up in the bricks surrounding her and she had savings. she did not want to retire at this point but the care required to her husband left little option.

Frankly I am really surprised that she has spent all of the money released and acquired more debt - she is already on the down ward spiral and personally I do not see her payments as manageable on a pension
As most of us are , she has been very secret about the whole thing but its there and black and white and some way or another it needs addressing

Her depression has existed for years , ever since I can remember and although I recognise the signs , it is very difficult to lift the cloud for her - she is on medication and has been for around 30 years

I know she is lonely and i know her freedom is restricted now she doesnt have a car and conditions mean she isn't as mobile as what she was , I've encouraged her to join local widow groups and offered to take her places but she never seems to have the motivation
Its an endless cycle of sleeping , smoking and sitting on the internet watching other peoples lives on social media - I get frustrated by the whole situation at home but I do try and be patient with her , although at times this is also a massive challenge.

I don't want to stay there forever as my goal is to be back in my own home but right now I feel as though If i leave I will be leaving her in financial hardship and thats something that will very tough to do

Since I questioned the card declining at the weekend and the presence of a new slice of plastic , she has made a concious effort to cut the ciggerettes down and I have been leaving her 10 a day almost rationing her like a child , its a start - I don't know if she is doing as much as £320.00 a month on this habit , this is my worse possible estimate but I would say its absolutely £250 - this has to go

If she needs more cash I will pay more housekeep but I will not do it if it is funding her cigerette habit and we have to find the problem and not just scratch the itch by freeing up more money to her

I've spoken to my sister at length re what I now know - My instinct told me something was wrong and now I know what , it is deciding the best way to proceed - neither of us can understand where the money has been spent but hey ho

It is her money and it is up to her what she does with it but I do need to get the reality across to her ( I am sure she knows she is just hoping it will pass )
I am going to this evening suggest that we go through the budget planner and do an SOA for her , I think where we go from there will be dependant on what she chooses to disclose

But yes , I do not want to be stuck there forever and if it panns out that she won't take hr situation on board , I see little reason to allow it to restrict me

efes_shareholder · 12 September 2018 at 9:40AM

well , last night went better than anticipated

My mum bought up that she had looked at the budget spreadsheet and how helpful it had been for her , I then broached whether she could see any areas where savings could be made
Her response - I have to stop smoking ( she has done it before but i know this will be very difficult for her , since the weekend she is managing on 10 a day ) , and when i asked how much she was spending on the habit she said around £70 a week

I then asked her how much she had on credit - she volunteered the new card and the correct balance but when I asked about other credit facilities she said she wasnt sure of the balances
I said I was concerned that a few days after my housekeep was paid in there was no money for food and it had made me consider if she was having trouble meeting the payments and if this was the case then there were steps that could be taken

To cut a long story short , she is of the opinion that stopping the cigs will see her right , I am not so convinced - by her own admission she has not "learnt" to manage a pension budget and has been living as if she still had the salary of her working years - the release of equity ( which was meant to just supplement and give her peace of mind that she had emergancy money or could have the occassional holiday/treat )
and the access to available credit have enabled this and basically now the well has run dry the realisation of this has set in

Her illness doesn't help - she got quite upset whilst we were talking and said she had just not been tracking things etc but she wasn't going to use any more cards , I have suggested that she should keep a spending diary to really see where cash is going

She is worried about the cost of Xmas and the 3 grandchildren which have "big" birthdays early next year , she has always been too generous but the difference is in the past she could afford it
She worries that they will notice they have had less then the grandkids who have already passed the milestone years , they really won't and I tried to reinstate this to her , they are grateful for her presence not her "presents"
We have a xmas pot which also covers the xmas food and the kids now they are all young adults with the exception of one just look forward to a nice family day etc , she has always got a lot of pleasure from treating them and I have tried to explain she shouldn't now they are growing and able to "treat" themselves

I felt a bit helpless - knowing that she has the debts but hadn't disclosed them fully and I know when she is anxious and as much as she insisted it wasn't a worry to her , I know her well enough to know this isn't the case

I told her I wasn't here to judge her but as I was addressing my own money mismanagement I was trying to help her and that she should not be afraid to talk about it , I could tell there was an element of embarrassment and shame

I also said that should what I contribute to the house not be enough ( I know that its more then sufficient) then she should say and I would help more however I would not do that if she was going to continue to light up as right now I felt like I was funding her habit

Having looked at the figures against her pension , if it wasn't for my cash she would almost certainly have to consider a DMP and I am not entirely sure that she won't have to in the future

i spoke to my sister about potentially suggesting that she frees up more from the house but this isn't something favorable and I know she will not want to do it PLUS she needs to learn to manage her budget but there are options , as i said to her last night whats done is done , we need to now address it !!

BLIMEY , I have given my own debts so much thought the last year or so and now to have this bombshell land feels quite overwhelming.

Living with someone who suffers with depression when you have your own moments is a challenge , I know I can't fix her state of mind and I know that as annoyed as I get with her lack of care to everything around her , getting cross with her will not help and will not change anything.
she gets very defensive and paranoid anyway and although I don't want to "babysit" the problem and turn a blind eye to things I don't want to be responsible for upsetting her to the point of a big black hole.

I've suggested she get out more - even if its to nip to the shop with me or just for a drive in the car with me

I really don't know what else I can do other then accept that I can't fix everything !!!

Thanks for reading if you stuck with me

I don't know what else to do other then get it all off my chest

NelliePie · 12 September 2018 at 10:14AM

I just want to take a moment to emphasise how far you've come as not only can you now help yourself and your own situation - you can recognise when those close to you are and offer help. If you'd found this out before the start of your journey the outcome may have been very different so kudos to you for sticking with it and trying to help. You can't make her do anything but the suggestions you've made and being there for support will no doubt be a world of help to her. See how the next few months go - if she really does give up the cigs, goes out more and makes some positive changes then great; if not then she (probably with your help) will need to reassess the situation.

As mean as this may sound - don't let her situation distract you from your own journey as it'd be very easy to slip back/help her out etc to the detriment of yourself. Work together and I'm sure you'll get through this.

efes_shareholder · 12 September 2018 at 10:41AM

Thanks Nellie , I am grateful that I have started my own journey and learnt so much already and although I can't do this for her , I can be approachable and hopefully be a support to her through hers.

At times she got emotional and said she didn't want to talk about it and I know her well enough to know she was embarrassed and felt a sense of shame - she was adamant she would sort it ( without admitting the extent of the problem) so I just said ok and that see how she got on and we would revisit the situation in a couple of months time

Her pension cannot clear those debts anytime soon but lets get the budget working first and then we can go from there.

I've also told her to not worry about anything at xmas for me and my sister and to give the wage earning grandchild a "token" gift , its not important - her health is and she needs to reduce her anxiety

I am going to have a look at events locally for her for xmas or sooner if I can , she used to love going to the theatre in london but with her mobility she won't manage the london transport network so i am hoping our local theatre might have something suitable which may cheer her up
and at least get her out

If its not the kids , its the parents - they say life begins at 40 !! or maybe we just learn to appreicate wine !!!

efes_shareholder · 12 September 2018 at 3:00PM

In other news , the fact I forgot to pick up a souvenier tea towel on my travels which I always do for one of my oldest friends has been overcome with a quick scout through ebay

£2.99 spend !

pidge04 · 13 September 2018 at 6:01AM

I am sorry to read about your Mum and her situation.

efes_shareholder · 13 September 2018 at 8:25AM

Thanks Pidge

my concerns are more for her state of mind then the debts she has accumulated - I know its only money and it can be sorted out but as we are all well aware , firstly you need to change the habits that lead you there.

My first instinct was to suggest we free up more equity ( this is her house and her capital ) but I am reluctant to put this idea to her until I can see she has a grip of the budget as its just putting a plaster over the problem

My bigger concern is the depression - I feel helpless watching someone seeming to get no happiness out of life

I think I need to up my effort in getting her out and about - however she needs to want to go out !!

taking responsibilty to get me where I want to be

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