Info Overload!!!

MoneySaver852 · 28 July 2017 at 10:54PM

Hi

Just joined this forum. I have had a number of letters and thought I could find some help here. I thought it might be helpful to post some newbie feedback as I think this is an amazing resource that could be used by many more people if it was more user friendly

As a complete newbie to the subject I have found the info in the newbie section overwhelming. I have read there that I should start a new thread and then have read elsewhere that I shouldn't start a new one.

I have read posts that say use the search bar to search "xyz". It took me ages to even find the search bar and then the results are just tonnes more information.

I think the newbie section with its many links has become counter productive for newbies. After having spent so many hours going through the information I came to the realisation that if I was charging myself an hourly rate for my spare time (based on my hourly at work), it would have been cheaper for me to just pay the fine. I have used up 3 evenings so far trying to get my head round the process.

My conclusion is that the steps are not that complex, but they are made complex by the many anagrams and legal language used in the newbie section as well as the many links to the many other threads which also just go on and on and on, not to mention all the links to other sites.

My request as a newbie... I don't want to know all the information, legal or otherwise, regarding parking tickets. I just want to know what I should do next! In the simplest and quickest way.

Like I said at the beginning, I think this is a brilliant resource and the people giving up their time to help others are amazing, but the other side are winning because people are confused about what they need to do.

Wouldn't it be great if there was a simple "YES / NO" flow chart that you could follow. It could even be made into an app or in html. I put a small example together based on the information I've read on this forum (it is far from complete)...

postimg.org/image/qxhvrq5kv/

Anyway thanks again for posting all this information. I'm at the debt collector letters stage. hopefully they get bored.

Coupon-mad · 28 July 2017 at 11:02PM

Wouldn't it be great if there was a simple "YES / NO" flow chart that you could follow.

Tried it a few years ago, it didn't work, there is no simple answer.

And personally I hate flow-charts, find them useless and infantile, but that's just me!

MoneySaver852 · 29 July 2017 at 12:11AM

Hmmm. strange, I came across lots of simple answers. Most of them were to repeat questions asked by newbies.

The more complex questions are what the pros should be dealing with.

I have a debt recovery letter from Gladstones. It took me ages to find out that I should just ignore it. Could have saved me hours if that was the first bit that I had read!

Anyways, thanks again for providing these resources.

Coupon-mad · 29 July 2017 at 1:00AM

You should always search a forum - and in fact I wrote a suggested robust response to a Gladstones debt letter. I don't think it should be ignored. Search the forum for Gallstones and you find it.

So much easier to search and read other threads about Gladstones first, because by trawling through the forum, you could never have read about Gladstones first because that's waaaay down the line after ignoring a PCN months or years before.

The_Deep · 29 July 2017 at 9:09AM

My conclusion is that the steps are not that complex, but they are made complex by the many anagrams and legal language

It is a Contract Law, of course it is complex, read the Supreme Court judgement on Beavis, over 100 pages, legal language is a sine qua non. Anagrams? Do you mean acronyms?

The key to not paying these scammers is to learn the language and jump through the hoops. The alternative is to pay up or ignore.

fisherjim · 29 July 2017 at 10:05AM

It is not straight forward because the PPC's like it that way, it makes them more money.

Umkomaas · 29 July 2017 at 10:13AM

Part of the problem is many just require the 'izzy whizzy, let's get bizzy' stick waved over the problem - 'hey presto'!

As TD says, this is contract law we're dealing with. If contract law was that simple there'd be more coach and horses being driven through it on a daily basis.

I do sympathise with newbies who come at this for the first time, but there's no 'easy' way to deal with it. I did, at one time, create a bullet-list 'walk through', but much has changed since then, and since Beavis and the rush to litigate, things have become even more complicated - well beyond a simple 'walk through'.

MothballsWallet · 29 July 2017 at 10:35AM

Although the acronyms/abbreviations don't always form easy(ier) to remember initialisms.

It's something I learnt from Penn & Teller's entertaining series !!!!!!!!! that they did for HBO about 20 years ago: one of the episodes they brought up the difference between initialisms and acronyms/abbreviations:

An acronym is just a set of letters that shorten a name or series of word, e.g., FBI
An initialism is an acronym that in itself forms another word that you can say.

And now you know.

MoneySaver852 · 29 July 2017 at 11:39AM

Thanks for replies guys.

So what are your opinions in my case...

I received a PCN last September from PPS (Private Parking Solutions (London) Ltd). My dad is the registered keeper of the vehicle.

The site has no notices at its entrance and one sign placed 2.5 metres high with tiny lettering, printed on corrugated plastic which appears to have melted in the sun. The only visible part of it from a distance is a white "P" on a blue rectangle background, which according to the highway code code means "parking available here". The site even looks like it is a public road and the public footpath continues right through it. It has no lighting at night. PCN states "Permit Required"

PPS sent my dad a few letters, which I told him to ignore. Then he got a few threatening ones from DRP (Debt Recovery Plus) which he found upsetting (he's quite elderly). The second one from them said "Notice of intended court action" and also mentioned that he would incur further expenses if he lost in court. They also increased the charge to £160 from £100. That really annoyed me so emailed them to say that I was the driver and that all further correspondence should be with me and that any further letters to my father would be kept as evidence of harassment. I also included pictures of the site showing how bad the signage was. They replied saying that it was too late to name the driver and too late for an Independent Appeals Service. They also said, under "My findings" that the PCN was "correctly and legitimately issued". The final letter from DRP was titled "Letter before referral for legal action"

I got really sick of their letters and told them to stop sending any more and just go to court. That was back in Feb. The next few letters were from Zenith Collections. They said that the debt had been transferred to them and that it had been reduced to £80 if paid in 14 days. 10 days later they sent another one again offering 14 days. They also said that if I lost in court that the total amount would increase.

The most recent one is from Gladstones Solicitors. It has no contact details for Gladstones and says any correspondence and payment should be directly with DRP. They have also given 14 days before they start court action and warn that it can seriously effect my credit rating.

NOTE: all the letters are still addressed to my dad and are sent to his addess.

Umkomaas · 29 July 2017 at 1:45PM

1. Do you have photos of the signs and car park layout? If not get them now. If the PPC initiates court action - and they have 6 years to do so - going to get photos in 2022 will likely be too late.

2. Anything and everything from DRP can be ignored with impunity. They are powerless. Your account of the stages the DRP letters to your father have progressed through are standard, and totally predictable - we have seen them so many times.

3. Did you know that Zenith and DRP are one and the same company (check the tiny light grey print at the foot (r/h side) of the Zenith letter. I don't think their letter states that the debt has been transferred to them. There's no debt to transfer. It probably said the collection process had transferred - a bit of a difference!

4. The 'Gladstones' letter is more than likely from DRP - and the next turn of the thumbscrew. If the letter has legitimately come from Gs, it will have a reference number 1xxxxxxx. If it's from DRP, it will be 3xxxxxx.

5. You are where you are with this. The only control you have is if you pay (and we're not suggesting that you do). If it comes to court you'll need to sort that out then. Do not ignore court papers or a prior Letter Before Action from Gs. You can defend it successfully with help from the forum. There is only one known case of a forum loss.

6. Did you notify PPS when asking for communications to come to you in future? If you haven't, I'd hold off on that, because there is more protection from them (via PoFA 2012) for the keeper than opening up 'the driver' door.

Handbags-at-dawn · 29 July 2017 at 1:57PM

MothballsWallet wrote: »

An acronym is just a set of letters that shorten a name or series of word, e.g., FBI
An initialism is an acronym that in itself forms another word that you can say.

.

Actually I think it's the other way around: radar is an acronym; FBI an initialism

Info Overload!!!

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