Info Overload!!!

Guys_Dad

If you have notified the PPC that you were the driver, then let them do their worst and take your father to court. He would need to play ball, though.

You could ask them to point out where in law that there is a maximum time for the driver to be named. Keep the correspondence of course.

The simple defence is that, having been informed in advance of any court proceedings, they have been informed that someone else was driving, they can not pursue the registered keeper.

MothballsWallet

Handbags-at-dawn wrote: »

Actually I think it's the other way around: radar is an acronym; FBI an initialism

You could be right - it's a long time since I saw the episode, will have to find the YouTube channel with it on as it was a segment they introduced in one season and appeared infrequently.

Guys_Dad

Handbags-at-dawn wrote: »

Actually I think it's the other way around: radar is an acronym; FBI an initialism

RADAR is also a palindrome.

The oxford dictionary would define POPLA or POFA as an acronym but PPC, BPA or IPC as initialism.

We, of course, have other definitions for the latter group.

MoneySaver852

1. Do you have photos of the signs and car park layout? If not get them now. If the PPC initiates court action - and they have 6 years to do so - going to get photos in 2022 will likely be too late.

Yup, took lots of pictures will upload some here.

3. Did you know that Zenith and DRP are one and the same company (check the tiny light grey print at the foot (r/h side) of the Zenith letter. I don't think their letter states that the debt has been transferred to them. There's no debt to transfer. It probably said the collection process had transferred - a bit of a difference!

Yes. You're right, it says "debt collection has been transferred"

4. The 'Gladstones' letter is more than likely from DRP - and the next turn of the thumbscrew. If the letter has legitimately come from Gs, it will have a reference number 1xxxxxxx. If it's from DRP, it will be 3xxxxxx.

Yup. You're right again starts with a "3"

5. You are where you are with this. The only control you have is if you pay (and we're not suggesting that you do). If it comes to court you'll need to sort that out then. Do not ignore court papers or a prior Letter Before Action from Gs. You can defend it successfully with help from the forum. There is only one known case of a forum loss.

Brilliant. Thanks again.

6. Did you notify PPS when asking for communications to come to you in future? If you haven't, I'd hold off on that, because there is more protection from them (via PoFA 2012) for the keeper than opening up 'the driver' door.

Just checked. The original email was to both PPS and DRP, but only DRP ever got back to me.

The simple defence is that, having been informed in advance of any court proceedings, they have been informed that someone else was driving, they can not pursue the registered keeper.

But could they still pursue the driver and would they have to start the whole process again?


I have a few questions if you guys could help...

I am happy to go to court, but will I get to claim my expenses for that day and can I sue them for harassing my father? Would that all be done on the same day or would that be something separate?

My father quite elderly and now quite poorly so could I go to court on his behalf?

Thanks again for your help.

Here are pictures of the site (My car was parked where the white van is):

postimg.org/image/8xjkm1733/

postimg.org/image/jm253rqcp/


And this the sign 2.5 metres up the wall:

postimg.org/image/5b932briz/[/url]

MoneySaver852

Also do you guys know if this site is legit:

bmpa.eu/wizard.html

Fruitcake

Here are pictures of the site (My car was parked where the white van is):

http://postimg.org/image/8xjkm1733/

http://postimg.org/image/jm253rqcp/

And this the sign 2.5 metres up the wall:

http://postimg.org/image/5b932briz

MoneySaver852 wrote: »

Also do you guys know if this site is legit:

http://bmpa.eu/wizard.html

The BMPA is a well respected motoring charity. Several of the regular well resected posters here are members.

MoneySaver852

The BMPA is a well respected motoring charity. Several of the regular well resected posters here are members.

Great. will have look at that too then.

Umkomaas

But could they still pursue the driver and would they have to start the whole process again?

They could (should) but they'd be in a bit of a mess if they'd gone so far in pursuing your father, despite them knowing the liability had been transferred to the driver. Would like to see how they handle that.

I am happy to go to court, but will I get to claim my expenses for that day and can I sue them for harassing my father? Would that all be done on the same day or would that be something separate?

If they pursue you, you could receive costs of £95 (capped max) for loss of earnings/loss of annual leave - take pay slips to prove income levels - perhaps a couple of hours of research/defence work @ £19ph litigant-in-person (LiP) rate and your travel/parking costs for your day in court. Many judges are reluctant to agree any LiP costs, some defendants have struggled to get loss of earnings. None of this is automatic.

If they are pursuing your father, then the chances of you receiving anything will likely diminish.

My father quite elderly and now quite poorly so could I go to court on his behalf?

Not without him. He must attend, but you could be his Lay Rep - check it out on Google, and also check out McKenzie Friend. You might well have to argue your corner with the judge to undertake the representation. Without your father being there - no chance.

can I sue them for harassing my father?

You can't, but your father could - but this would be a very steep hill to climb. A few irritating PPC/DCA letters are unlikely to swing the pendulum his way.

A breach of the Data Protection Act principles might have more legs, but you'll (he'll) need to be fully in charge of his brief and have all the ducks in a row. Plenty of research needed, here's some leads for you to look through - at leisure - because you have 6 years to bring a claim, and you have (he has) more immediate issues to deal with.

If you ultimately want to turn the tables you (your father) could sue them for misuse of your/his data under the DPA. It's not for the faint-hearted, and you need a good case. If you're prepared to put your back into this, the following will hopefully assist you.

DATA PROTECTION ACT GUIDANCE

First and foremost, please read thoroughly this extensive guidance put together by MSE poster Timothea. This will give you the background and conditions for you to consider and determine whether you might have a case to pursue.

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/5585388

Other Sources

http://www.parkingcowboys.co.uk/data-protection-act

Some apposite blogs from the Parking Prankster:

http://parking-prankster.blogspot.co.uk/2017/07/parking-awareness-services-to-pay-400.html#comment-form

http://parking-prankster.blogspot.co.uk/2016/12/liverpool-business-park-motorist-wins.html

http://parking-prankster.blogspot.co.uk/2016/11/smart-parking-settle-out-of-court-for.html

Latter part of this blog:

http://parking-prankster.blogspot.co.uk/2016/12/heath-parade-graham-park-way-scam-site.html

On PePiPoo, regular contributor 'Lynnzer' seems to be taking a lead in pushing for the pursuit of DPA breaches by PPCs. He has written a number of well constructed Letters Before Claim requiring the PPC to pay the motorist between £250 and £750 as compensation for the stress they have been put under by the PPC, or risk the matter resulting in a formal claim at the Small Claims Court. .

http://www.thebridesmother.co.uk/Media/Templates.pdf

http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?act=SF&s=&f=60

LETTER BEFORE COUNTY COURT CLAIM

Drafted by Bargepole 05/02/2017

http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showpost.php?p=72049019&postcount=18

But I think you need to walk before you run.

And you thought the NEWBIES sticky was an information overload? :rotfl:

As I've previously intimated, none of this stuff is 'press-the-button-hey-presto' easy!

MoneySaver852

Hi Guys,

Big thanks to all of you for your advice so far.

My father just got a "Letter Before Claim" from Gladstones this morning.

My father (the keeper) has never had any contact with PPS, DRP or Gladstones. So they don't know who the driver is.

As I've said in earlier posts. I (the driver) emailed DRP and PPS to tell them that I was the driver and they refused to accept that and said it was too late to transfer liability to the driver.

What should my next step be?

I've attached the letter my father received. Let me know if you can't view it

postimg.org/image/orppcup5n/

Thanks

System

Needs to be replied to. Send a letter asking for "further and better particulars" especially the contract, copies of the signs, and pics of the car.

Remind Gladstones of CPR 1.1 which is the overriding objective - to deal with the matter proportionately. They won't but it sets them up for costs.

1.1
(1) These Rules are a new procedural code with the overriding objective of enabling the court to deal with cases justly and at proportionate cost.
(2) Dealing with a case justly and at proportionate cost includes, so far as is practicable –
(a) ensuring that the parties are on an equal footing;
(b) saving expense;
(c) dealing with the case in ways which are proportionate –
(i) to the amount of money involved;
(ii) to the importance of the case;
(iii) to the complexity of the issues; and
(iv) to the financial position of each party;
(d) ensuring that it is dealt with expeditiously and fairly;
(e) allotting to it an appropriate share of the court’s resources, while taking into account the need to allot resources to other cases; and
(f) enforcing compliance with rules, practice directions and orders.

Since the case turns on the contract, copies of the signs, and pics of the car, then they have no reason to refuse to give them to the defendant.