Neighour's extension on my land

VictorMeldew

Not much else has happened since I last posted - I've found another solicitor who I'm much happier with - he grasped the whole situation really quickly. He advised me to go around to my neighbour and give him a copy of the surveyor's report which shows that he is trespassing and to negotiate some solution with him.

So I went round about 10 days ago and asked for the fence to be put back up in such a way that I can get my wheelie bin around, for the boundary to be put right with the land registry and also £1000 compo as per the advice of my solictor. My neighbour didn't really say a lot, he just said he'd have a look at the report and get back to me. I've still heard nothing so am going to go around again maybe tomorrow to see what's going on.

I've had a reply from the head planning officer in response to my complaint - I'll post it seperately...

VictorMeldew

I am writing in connection with your previous complaints to both Mr xxxxx and Mr xxxxxxxx in respect of the aforementioned planning application, and your most recent request, in a letter dated 3rd October last, where you stated that your complaint be escalated to a Stage 2 level.

I am concerned that you are unhappy with the previous response to your complaint, and will try to address the points raised in your letter in order to bring a satisfactory conclusion to the matter. For ease of reference I have split your complaint into the following sub-headings; (i) site/site layout plans, (ii) amended plans and (iii) visits to the property by enforcement/planning officers.

Site Location/Site Layout Plans:

With regards to the site location plan, all the documentation submitted with the planning application was to a satisfactory standard of detail and to a recognised scale. An Ordnance Survey plan (1:1250 scale) accompanied the application, this is a legal requirement for all planning applications as it enables the case officer to clearly identify the site boundary of the property, and to establish the location of the proposed extension. The application was also accompanied by 1:50 and 1:100 scaled drawings which quite clearly show the dimensions of the proposed extensions which would enable you to assess any likely impact that the siting of the extension may have on your property. The consultation letter sent to you clearly stated that the proposed two-storey extension was at the side of the property, and therefore I must disagree with the point you raise in paragraph 4 that you did not know the exact position of the extension, as you make reference to it in your letter of objection of 18th March that you are concerned about the possibility of it overshadowing your property. From the information submitted and following the site visit carried out by the case officer, he had more than sufficient information to make a full assessment of the proposal and its potential impact upon neighbouring properties. As part of any assessment of a planning application, a case officer looks at such matters as whether an extension is overbearing or has a detrimental visual impact whether or not a neighbour raises such concerns, but in the final assessment of this proposal both the Case Officer (xxxxx) and the Household Manager (xxxxxxx) considered that there was no detrimental impact upon any surrounding properties once the proposed balcony element had been deleted. The dimensions and design of all elements of the proposal conform to current Policy guidance within the Liverpool Unitary Development Plan, and specifically within Supplementary Planning Guidance note 1 relating to House Extensions. As Mr 'case officer' has stated in previous correspondence, the fact that your property has an existing two-storey extension to the side cannot prejudice the ability of your neighbour to have a similar extension, and any additional objections that you may have made will have already have been considered as part of his assessment of the proposal.

Issues relating to the possibility of encroachment onto adjoining plots cannot be assessed under Planning Law but may be addressed by the Party Wall Act which is part of the Building Regulations procedure. However, the documents that accompanied the application clearly stated that all the land on which the extension was to be sited was within the control of the applicant (Mr xxxx) and an informative was attached to the decision notice highlighting the need for the applicant to respect the defined boundaries of the properties, but this cannot be enforced in law. This is why you were advised that the matter will fall under Civil Law as you consider that your neighbour has built upon land that belongs to you and has misinformed you, therefore it is classed as being a neighbour dispute and cannot be addressed under planning law. However, from the drawings that accompanied the application it was assessed that the dimensions of the proposed extension will be located on land within the boundary identified on the site location plan.

Amended Plans

I accept your conclusion, as did Mr xxxxxxx letter of 4th September, 2008, that the proposed single storey rear extension received in the form of an amended plan on 18th April last, formed part of the proposed application and could not have been considered to be “permitted development”. You, together with other local residents, should have been formally notified of this amendment to the application and given an opportunity to comment further on this element of the application if you so wished. I have interviewed the case officer and made him aware of this and the Planning Service have also put measures in effect to ensure that local residents are notified in further instances of where additional amendments are made to ongoing applications. Having said this I would stress the point made in previous correspondence to you that the assessment of the Case Officer prior to making his recommendation did include an assessment of this additional extension and it was considered that it would not prejudice your amenity.

Site Visits by Planning/Enforcement Officers

It does appear there has been some confusion over the site visits carried out to 4 xxxxxx xxxx. Both the Planning Officer and Building Inspector have carried out 2 site visits each during April and May 2008 and when you called on 29th May you have been informed that an enforcement officer would go out to inspect the site within 48 hours. This clearly was not the case and you should have been informed accordingly, Mr xxxxxx had carried out a second site visit at the end of May and his report together with the report of the Building Inspector and photographic evidence, meant there to be no requirement for an Enforcement Officer to visit the site as they were satisfied that everything was in order.

In conclusion, I am satisfied that the correct procedures have been followed to ensure that any possible impact upon your property and those of your neighbours has been fully assessed. You were given every opportunity to comment upon the proposals, and those concerns you highlighted were addressed by the Case Officer in ensuring the removal of the proposed balcony feature. Although issues relating to land ownership cannot be addressed under Planning Law, the applicant was made aware of the importance of recognising boundary issues in accordance with current guideline considerations. We have now put measures in place relating to the readvertising of household planning applications when amendments are made to ongoing applications.

Yours sincerely

VictorMeldew

Sorry about that huge post! For anyone who can be arsed to read it, a few of the questions I asked in my complaint were definitley not answered. The case officer sent me a letter stating that an enforcement visit had been carried out because I had informed him about the new one storey extension which does not appear on the plans. He said that the site conformed to the plans, but what he neglected to inform me was that the plans he had had been amended to show the new one storey extension. Therefore there was no need for an enforcement visit as he knew exactly what was being built. The have not explained why the case officer blatanlty lied to me about this.

They have also not explained why there was no site plan - every other similar application submitted at around the same time as my neighbours has one, or at least shows the boundary on the ground plan, but my neighbour's does not. In the above letter he says that the dimensions of the extension were clearly shown - am I meant to jump over the fence and measure this up myself to find out where the extension is in relation to the boundaries? Needless to say, I will now be progressing to an ombudsman complaint, but am not getting my hopes up. If they brush over things in the same way as the council then I won't get anywhere.

What really p!isses me off is that I genuinely was confused about the location of the extension and thought for a while that it was in the kink in the boundary shown on the location plan. If a site plan had been included I would have known much sooner that the extension was going to trespass. Greenface also thought this from looking at the location plan in post 160 page 8 so I'm not alone either!

prudryden

Is there a case for misrepresentation (possibly deliberate) i.e. fraud to the council re: the control of the land on which the extension was built?

Any possibilities of a claim on his property with the register? He then would have to take you to court or negotiate with you to remove it. Just thinking out loud and a little bit laterally here.

Debs12

I just want to say that i have read all the posts here and made it to the end!

What a crazy world we live in..

Can you get the parents offer to buy house in writing? Maybe they could buy it now and you could it rent it from them for two years until you are ready to move?

Have you had an estate agent out?

Give a recent copy of the Council official repsonse to those nice councillors that came out.

Did the wall ever get plastered?

Has the plasterer been back in prison?

When is the next installement.

I know that we should not see the funny side in some of this but also found the whole doco soap type thread a really strange concepect and this must be one of the best examples.

lotto-dreamer

oldone wrote: »

Remember if you go to court, win or lose, you will have to declare this dispute to potential buyers when you come to sell. I would take the advice of others and try and sell to the parents.

This is probably the most sensible advice in your circumstances.

When you sell, you have to truthfully answer a set of questions and any boundary dispute will have to be disclosed. This could put off potential buyers.

Boundary disputes are notoriously complicated and can be very costly - and can drag on for years. The Land Registry does not guarantee exact boundaries on title plans anyway - so you would be looking at a lot of extra expense with surveyors, council, Land Registry, solicitors etc.

There are whole books written on boundary disputes. It's a minefield.

If you were planning to move anyway and have the chance to sell - this could save you a costly and stressful fight.

nanker

I think we could all do well if we bought shares in a company that manufactures whitewash!

The council have clearly failed you here. I wonder if the informative attached to the decision document told him that boundary disputes cannot be enforced by law? makes it easy for him to take advantage doesn't it?

VictorMeldew

I went round to my neighbours today and he said that he has shown the report to a surveyor who has told him that because the deed diagrams are so badly drawn it would never stand up in court. Unfortunaltely this may well be true. Basically the deed diagrams for both our properties don't fit together, and both show a completely different boundary line. My surveyor said that this has happened because the architects who drew up the deeds for the council in the 1980's made a very poor job of it. Mine was done first in 1980 and when his was done in 1983 the architect didn't use my deed as a reference as he should have done. The result is that my deed diagram shows that the extension is on his land, and his deed shows that it is on my land. My surveyors have discounted my deed diagram from their conclusions as his matches the fences, OS maps, and land registry maps more closely. I'm not sure where this leaves me legally but it is obviously not good for me, and again the council have massively let me down by doing a poor job. I've not mentioned this before now just in case my neighbour is reading - I was probably just being paranoid!

My neighbour has agreed to sort the fences and the boundary but won't pay me any compensation. I am going to get my solictor to draw something up to this effect for my neighbour to sign. This is probably the best I can hope for.

Prudryden - I'm not quite sure what you mean, but all anyone has to do when building anything is to sign to say they own the land needed for the building. At this point the planning office have got nothing more to do with any boundary issues and if there is any disagreement this then becomes a civil matter between the involved parties. Even if I went to court and proved that the erxtension is on my land, the most I could hope for would be a small amount of compensation - there is practically no chance that they would judge to take it off my land now that it's alerady built.

I'm gald I've kept you entertained debs12!! I did ask him again about his parent's interest in buying, but he said they're on holiday until Novemeber. I now doubt very much that their offer was genuine but you never know. I've heard nothing more from the councilors that came out so they're obviously keeping out of it now despite their initial enthusiasm. I emailed them and they said that they'd get back to me but I've heard nothing.

It seems to be ridiculously easy to steal some of your neighbours land - once something is built, unless your deed diagrams happen to represent your fences very accurately, and you're prepared to spend thousands going to court and even then risk losing, there is not much you can do about it.

guppy

VictorMeldew wrote: »

It seems to be ridiculously easy to steal some of your neighbours land - once something is built, unless your deed diagrams happen to represent your fences very accurately, and you're prepared to spend thousands going to court and even then risk losing, there is not much you can do about it.

Sorry to hear the outcome hasn't been entirely positive for you

Sounds like the best advice to anyone else would be to try and nip any interference with boundaries etc. in the bud before the work is finished.

Debs12

I am now with the guy that wants us all to go round and knock it down.

It will be a civil matter let him sort it out in the courts. How will he prove its not his land. Once its knocked down but a garden shed in its place.

Will 2 o clock next Sat do?

Debs