Dig for Victory - Mark II

rhiwfield

RAS, if I were to bet on the circumstance that could provoke a major change on gyo and self sufficiency, and enough to make govt try to take belated meaningful action, it would be a combination of climate change and associated sea level rise. The two together could result in inundation of food growing and population areas, habitat change, mass migration and more bitter water wars.

I suspect we may be singing from the same hymn sheet but, if climate change is happening, and I think it is, I still dont see current actions reversing or even stopping the process.

That is not to say that I dont think it worthwhile for individuals to work harder for their families food security.

ceridwen

Well - I think we all have to do what we can from where we're at. One of my reasons why I'm urging people to do this is because I think its possible Rhiwfield that the scenario you envisage might come to pass. Rhiwfield - I think you and RAS and Silvercharming and Davesnave - we are all very much singing from the same songsheet (respect to RAS in fact - as I believe I am correct in thinking that he/she has played a part in trying to ensure that those in Africa can eat).

I have a variety of reasons for being concerned - besides the directly personal one of I myself want fresh, organic, cheaper food. I am concerned about possible rising sea levels, I am concerned about Mons**to and the like. I believe if people get more closely connected to Nature in the process of growing their own food - then they might start to respect it more. I believe that a stable food supply is part of what is necessary to ensure a stable society and I want my society to stay as (relatively) stable as it is - preferably become more stable and happier. I'm doing my tiny bit to try and ensure that there won't ever be food riots in my own country at any rate.

Davesnave

I'm sure RAS is right that climate change & associated problems would motivate governments, were it not for the fact that immediate issues get in the way. The current situation shows what happens whenever economic growth slows.

Despite noble words, governments' actions tend to be a short-term focused. Like a drunken man, they lurch from one crisis to the next in a reactive manner. Making and selling stuff & services, or giving people the means to purchase stuff from elsewhere, much of which nobody really needs, is the way in which our society has provided employment in recent years. Hence, when it all goes horrilby wrong, the government's first reaction is to throw money at the problem and encourage all of us to 'go out and consume.' It prefers not to grasp the thorny problems that this whole debacle was caused by people spending money they never had, nor could ever expect to pay back, and that instability will probably worsen as the supply of oil and other natural resources dwindles.

Perhaps the current crisis will put more people back in touch with the basics of life by encouraging more of them to grow food and think about where it comes from. If feeding the nation becomes an issue, and I think it could, then a different set of priorities might emerge from this mess. I have no doubt that we will all be financially worse off in ten years time, but life could be so much richer in other respects.

rhiwfield

We've seen C4/HF-W Landshare proposal and we all want councils to provide more allotment land, despite this there are lots of people who want productive land.

Trouble is most productive land near towns and villages has development potential so is not priced as agricultural land. Still, with developers and horse owners suffering from the credit crunch what is the possibility of concerned groups of individuals forming a co-op to acquire land? Even a high cost of £10,000 per acre translates into 16 x £600 full size allotments (hope my maths are correct!) tho costs will mount if water is to be laid on, parking spaces provided, security fencing installed.

What's the betting that, if you factored in the health and community benefits and made the scheme wildlife friendly, that you could source grant aid to meet most of the cost?

webwalker

I grow most of my own veg and quite a bit of fruit but then I'm quite fortunate in having a fairly large garden, when I have a glut of something I swap with my neighbour who keeps chickens but doesn't grow veg. Free range eggs for free range fruit and veg, helps us both.

ceridwen

rhiwfield wrote: »

We've seen C4/HF-W Landshare proposal and we all want councils to provide more allotment land, despite this there are lots of people who want productive land.

Trouble is most productive land near towns and villages has development potential so is not priced as agricultural land. Still, with developers and horse owners suffering from the credit crunch what is the possibility of concerned groups of individuals forming a co-op to acquire land? Even a high cost of £10,000 per acre translates into 16 x £600 full size allotments (hope my maths are correct!) tho costs will mount if water is to be laid on, parking spaces provided, security fencing installed.

What's the betting that, if you factored in the health and community benefits and made the scheme wildlife friendly, that you could source grant aid to meet most of the cost?

Its certainly one possibility. At that sorta figure - maybe we would be talking £1,000 per "allotment plot" with all the fencing, etc thrown in. I'm personally thinking - I'd pay £1,000 for a suitable fenced, etc, bit of allotment land if there was land near enough to me that could be used for these purposes (unfortunately - in my case - there isnt anywhere near me - darn it:mad: ). In principle though I would certainly go for it - grant aid or no grant aid. I believe half an allotment is sufficient for a normal size household isnt it? That being the case - such a bit of land could be divided into 32 half size plots (all I would want myself really). If there were land near me that could be bought communally on that basis I would positively jump at paying £500 and buying myself a half-size plot that was mine in perpetuity. Having said that - I would also be in there pretty fast and pay £1,000 for a full-size allotment if that was the only size that was going - its just that I dont think many households would need a full-size one.? If the land was laid out in half-size allotments more households could be "served" and it would encourage people to maximise their use of available space too. The larger the bit of land a household had - then the greater the chances that a bit of their land would be "wasted" by planting in an inefficient way or even just leaving a bit of that land unused that someone else would have been glad of.

....errrr....I wouldnt be planning on allowing any of the land for parking spaces though.....room for a bike rack would be a good idea and future-friendly. I would see it as a waste of good foodgrowing land to use any of it for carparking...and believe people need encouraging out of their cars as far as possible.

Larumbelle

Rhiwfield, I have looked into doing this myself, if only every little bit of land within walking distance hadn't already been swallowed up in some grand plan to 'regenerate' the area. As it is, we are fighting to get our common land actually classed as a common before they try and build on it. The council has now put up narky signs saying it's definitely not common land but we can use it until building work starts :rolleyes: It's not entirely straightforward to start an allotment site, but a friend of mine down here is something of an expert in founding them, so if you need to be put in touch with him, let me know. But I do agree with Ceridwen, it seems self-defeating to drive to the allotment site, I know there will be occasions when it is necessary, but not all of the time.

Also, I am wondering whether, if you scattered wildflower seeds in an area of long grass, would the grass smother the wildflowers before they got to germinate? I know they say that when people are establishing their own wildflower meadows, but I'm thinking longer term - I'm assuming that if a few came up this year and spread their seed, a few more would come up next year, and so on, but I need to make sure that there's a chance those first few would come up.

nodwah

silvercharming wrote: »

Also, I am wondering whether, if you scattered wildflower seeds in an area of long grass, would the grass smother the wildflowers before they got to germinate? I know they say that when people are establishing their own wildflower meadows, but I'm thinking longer term - I'm assuming that if a few came up this year and spread their seed, a few more would come up next year, and so on, but I need to make sure that there's a chance those first few would come up.

Never done it, but I think it can be quite tricky to gat wildflower meadows established - I've read chris Beardshaw (I think) saying it's better to start putting plants in rather than seeds. but you also need to mow or cut the meadow at certain times of teh year.

There's development going on round here on agricultural land (what green belt?) and also on land that's prone to flooding and is boggy at all time o f the year - I wanted to get hold of some rare newts and 'plant' them to halt the building

SEE

nodwah wrote: »

Never done it, but I think it can be quite tricky to gat wildflower meadows established - I've read chris Beardshaw (I think) saying it's better to start putting plants in rather than seeds. but you also need to mow or cut the meadow at certain times of teh year.

There's development going on round here on agricultural land (what green belt?) and also on land that's prone to flooding and is boggy at all time o f the year - I wanted to get hold of some rare newts and 'plant' them to halt the building

I have newts, but don't know if they're rare. You can borrow them if like:D

ceridwen

nodwah wrote: »

There's development going on round here on agricultural land (what green belt?) and also on land that's prone to flooding and is boggy at all time o f the year - I wanted to get hold of some rare newts and 'plant' them to halt the building

Actually - that sounds like a seriously good idea - and one that could be "adapted" to other at risk land.:D