St Andrews Glass Dundee

windowhunk

I was at one point closely involved with St Andrews Glass and have been following this thread over the past week or so. Having read and considered all the posts I can no longer resist the urge to comment on a few points raised...

I feel that whilst the way St Andrews Glass have handled certain issues over the last few weeks (both publicly and privately, I hasten to add) may not have been right, there are also a number of comments on here from people who seem to just be venting anger or who simply are not considering things from a business point of view...

Firstly, regarding crimewatch66's comments about deposits being taken from customers; please remember that St Andrews Glass were suppliers, not manufacturers. They were buying almost all materials in prior to installation. Also, these products were generally bespoke and not just 'warehouse stock'. This is why deposits were often required. Furthermore, if you're placing high value orders such as for a conservatory try finding a company that will see the project right through to total completion (often several months and involving up to 20 different tradesmen) without any deposit whatsoever; you won't find one. It is certainly not unreasonable to ask for a 10-20% deposit on these jobs. Remember, before a spade is even put in the ground the supplying company will be paying surveyor costs, council costs, material costs, sales and marketing staff, technical drawing/architectural costs etc etc.

Recently, St Andrews Glass were encouraging all customers to pay deposits by credit card thus offering the protection that this gives. Also, any orders funded by finance will be double-guaranteed by the loan company.

Regarding comments about young marketing staff, I cannot put it better than the admittedly blunt post from 'Oooooooohhhh'!which basically says life's tough, crap happens, deal with it. I say it's a shame that a few 16-ish year olds lost an average of £30 but what about all the older staff who have lost a month's wages or much more and now may struggle to pay their mortgages!

Extreme88's comments about "was it a real job anyway?,cold calling up elderly people and press ganging them into windows,doors,etc" is just ridiculous. St Andrews Glass at their peak were turning over almost £3,000,000 a year and have thousands of totally happy customers up and down the East coast. There just aren't that many stupid, gullible, cash-rich advice-poor 123 year-olds living here!

Sandy20 says: "It would be interesting to know how much money they took in in deposits from customers in last two months for work that they must have been aware could not be delivered?". Sorry to hear about your story Sandy but your comment is clearly not born from business acumen; pick the last 10 items you bought or services you used. Chances are at least 9 of the companies providing them have at some point had difficult times, this is business. As 'Oooooooohhhh'!correctly points out, what state would the global economy be in if every company going through a difficult patch ceased trading?! Has it not occurred to you that however successful attempts to remedy the problems were, the company would not possibly survive if orders were to stop coming in!

There are some great comments from Sideyman, who obviously knows the industry and can advise from both sides of the table.

Finally, there are obviously lots of people and businesses who have lost money here, but for some it may not be as bad as first thought. Lots of customers who were awaiting installation will be able to claim this back from either finance company or credit card company but yes some will never see it again. Some companies who were creditors will have part of their losses insured and can, I believe, also often claim some level of tax relief on the rest, and customers with remedial issues on already installed jobs will generally be able to find a local tradesman to help at low cost.

But, in my opinion, the real victims must surely be the loyal staff and excellent tradesmen who have lost wages, which to my knowledge range from £30 each to over £6,000.!

St Andrews Glass were once a fine little local business, offering customers a great product at a good price (try calling weatherseal and asking for a door for £800 fitted - same product!). They made profit, expanded gradually in a considered way and offered a lot of local people stable work at good rates of pay. I have been privy to a lot of inside information and some of it would surely breed controversy were it public knowledge, but the fall of this company is, overall, a bad thing. People should consider this.

stevemc1

[hi,simon flynn and scott craig basically robbed data from weatherseal ans set up to cash in as quickley as poss,ive worked for them both and a pair of hiway want to bees,take a walk round broughty ferry and you will see "bi si" spending your cash he will be easy to find quote=sandy20;discussion/964219]Has anyone heard if St Andrews Glass Dundee (Windows & Conservatories) company are in trouble.

I have paid a 2K deposit for a conservatory and front door (by credit card).

Tried to contact them today (various tel nos) and either get a busy line or no answer at all.

Managed to contact one of their surveyors who has also been trying to contact them since Friday.
It does not look good, he thinks that Receivers may have been called in but basically is as much in the dark as I am.

I am obviously worried as I have paid a deposit but until I can find out for definite don't know how to proceed.

Will credit card company cover deposit if needs be?

Would appreciate any advice?

PS Hope this is the right forum for this![/quote]

Extreme88

Bullshine removed..........
"
Extreme88's comments about "was it a real job anyway?,cold calling up elderly people and press ganging them into windows,doors,etc" is just ridiculous. St Andrews Glass at their peak were turning over almost £3,000,000 a year and have thousands of totally happy customers up and down the East coast. There just aren't that many stupid, gullible, cash-rich advice-poor 123 year-olds living here!"

More waffle removed..........



Ah Ha,Mr St Andrews rears his head from the dust,and adds comment here.
If St Andrews Glass had invested in the proper and established advertising ,rather than waste a fortune cold calling the whole of Tayside by phone,they may still be trading today,it was their poor managment,and Business plan that has let them down in this case.
The glazing industry as a whole is full of backstabbing,and slagging,and they are all at it Everest,St Andews,Lyndon,Sidey,to name a few.
i would say to the glazing firms,be more professional in your customer approach,that way you may earn more respect if you do go under


as for a door fitted for £800 i can get Sovereign Windows, to do it for £700 and a good job at that, Ian and his lads, that dont cold call,just get on with a good quality, reasonable priced job
Extreme

greenface

I am a small window fitter (5ft 6") Two men one van buys frames in from established local firm.
Never ask for payment until customer and their family are completely happy with job done . I mainly work from my customers passing on my number and word of mouth. I am good i know it and i am also reasonably cheap but more important i am honest and will go out of my way to keep my customers(friends) happy. I have fitted PVCu windows into houses 20 years ago that the people now want replacing and ask me without hesitation it gives me a great deal of satisfaction.

WINDOWHUNK MAKES SOME GREAT COMMENTS

I make a decent living by 2 sales pitches i use on almost daily occasions
1= I AM NOT A SALESMAN I WILL BE THE BLOKE STICKING YOUR WINDOWS IN SO I KNOW WHAT I AM SAYING WHEN I TALK WINDOWS AND PROBLEMS THAT HAPPEN.
2=I AM A LOCAL LAD AND CAN KNOCK ON MANY HOUSES HERE GET A CUPPA AND LISTEN TO THEM TALK GOOD THINGS ABOUT ME.

As for big companys being better and more trustworthy and organized re Thameside Windows in the 80s Regal windows in the 90s St Helens Glass only last year. Sometimes bigger company bigger finacial fall (i have friends who worked for and are still owed money from these.

You paid by card you should be ok (apart from the worry caused) hope all goes well. :beer: cheers

greenface

I am a small window fitter (5ft 6") Two men one van buys frames in from established local firm.
Never ask for payment until customer and their family are completely happy with job done . I mainly work from my customers passing on my number and word of mouth. I am good i know it and i am also reasonably cheap but more important i am honest and will go out of my way to keep my customers(friends) happy. I have fitted PVCu windows into houses 20 years ago that the people now want replacing and ask me without hesitation it gives me a great deal of satisfaction.

WINDOWHUNK MAKES SOME GREAT COMMENTS

I make a decent living by 2 sales pitches i use on almost daily occasions
1= I AM NOT A SALESMAN I WILL BE THE BLOKE STICKING YOUR WINDOWS IN SO I KNOW WHAT I AM SAYING WHEN I TALK WINDOWS AND PROBLEMS THAT HAPPEN.
2=I AM A LOCAL LAD AND CAN KNOCK ON MANY HOUSES HERE GET A CUPPA AND LISTEN TO THEM TALK GOOD THINGS ABOUT ME.

As for big companys being better and more trustworthy and organized re Thameside Windows in the 80s Regal windows in the 90s St Helens Glass only last year. Sometimes bigger company bigger finacial fall (i have friends who worked for and are still owed money from these.

You paid by card you should be ok (apart from the worry caused) hope all goes well. :beer: cheers

stevemc1

i agree with the wee windae fitter,i no simon flynn,scott craig,steve dye and there faithfull window hunk nick,with the exception of steve dye they are all a shower of liars,simon and scott got moved from weatherseal to st helens,then to supreme o glaze then back to weatherseal for simon to be sales director big si with the big car the big wage oh yea the big ego and scott as his barking puppy,cowards would take deposits and laugh when they got them,behind bars is where they will hopefully go,small fitters no there product and fitt it every day you are buying from the same man that is installing it,you are dealing with normal hard working men with families not trumff wana bees,st andrews glass started up wen simon flynn and scott craig emptied weatherseals office of telecan staff(which simons wife rachel ran)and canvasers and reps ohhh ya and every bit of data they could get there greedy theiving hands on,i tell you folks go down to broughty ferry and you will see as they call themselves "the rat pack" spending our money with no shame as they sold there souls long ago

sideyman

Just a quick post to those thinking of what to do next? .St. Andrews Glass and Glazing has just registered as a company. Who is behind this l wonder, and more importantly with whose money.:mad: Incorparated on the 16-06-08
Bad names are like bad smells! They dont go away easy!

stevemc1

bet simon was a soul trader so if it did go tits up they can then register the biz as a limited company in scott craigs name and start again

stevemc1

i refer to one of my comments about windowhunk being as bad as the rest of the rat pack maybe it was a bit harsh as he is a young lad easily influenced by cars cash and the high life but please remember this nick,its harder to do it the correct way,i am a proffesional sales person who now refuses to bend figs,i wont take a signiture in a house and use my own home as a showroom,office and biz,i am succsesfull and happy and all my clients no were i live and are friends as well so it can be done,pick your next career move wisely cause dirt does stick

smartypantz

In my opinion St Andrews Glass knew exactly what they were doing. All of there directors have had other businesses go belly up in a short space of time and if they were running there company legally why didn't they have a permit to employ kids some as young as 14. I have just found out they have been known as Bellshelf Ltd and St. Helens Glass aswell. These people need to be stopped they are running a scam and giving people doubts about other small companies that are trying to build there businesses legitimately.