London - Return Tickets - Child £6.60

yorkie2

A few issues that complicate things that I am not sure the answer to...

1) He has a child rate Oyster, these Oyster cards are always issued until 30 September in the year of leaving school, regardless of actual date of birth. I have been told they are valid for travel at child rate for any journey wholly within the London zonal area regardless of operator - is this true, can anyone confirm?

2) He paid £6.60 for a ticket which is PRICED zonally however is, unfortunately and quite ludicrously, not actually valid zonally. It SHOULD be a ticket to Zone 6, and if it was a LU ticket it would be. However it is a ticket to Chessington South specifically. (This really should be changed - the TOCs have no excuse, having introduced zonal fares, to still issue them to specific stations). An RPI has said, on another forum, that the ticket is therefore not valid to Surbiton and that it does not count as being "off route" it counts as "over distance". Can it really be "over distance" when travelling to a destination that is no further in distance at all and is the same price? if so that is ludicrous!

ticketcollector

yorkie2 wrote: »

A few issues that complicate things that I am not sure the answer to...

1) He has a child rate Oyster, these Oyster cards are always issued until 30 September in the year of leaving school, regardless of actual date of birth. I have been told they are valid for travel at child rate for any journey wholly within the London zonal area regardless of operator - is this true, can anyone confirm?

2) He paid £6.60 for a ticket which is PRICED zonally however is, unfortunately and quite ludicrously, not actually valid zonally. It SHOULD be a ticket to Zone 6, and if it was a LU ticket it would be. However it is a ticket to Chessington South specifically. (This really should be changed - the TOCs have no excuse, having introduced zonal fares, to still issue them to specific stations). An RPI has said, on another forum, that the ticket is therefore not valid to Surbiton and that it does not count as being "off route" it counts as "over distance". Can it really be "over distance" when travelling to a destination that is no further in distance at all and is the same price? if so that is ludicrous!

1. We have been told to issue tickets based on their date of birth not what the oyster card says. Child Oyster card is also not proof of being a child.
2. Its confusing and depends on how the rpi/rpo/rco/etc has been trained. Poorly as seems to be in this case (just get the money and get rid of them, let them appeal it), or correctly which never seems to happen.
I would not have PF'd and I would have issued a Zero Excess as its the same price.

ticketcollector

According to the routing guide the ticket from ILFORD to CHESSINGTON SOUTH is valid via surbiton.
http://www.atoc.org/rsp/Routeing_Guide.asp

Heres comes the jargon.
Ilford is part of the Romford Routing Group.
Chessington uses routings Epsom, Kingston, Surbiton and Wimbledon

So the route between Romford and Wimbledon goes through London Routing Group...

London Routing Group to Wimbledon states that maps PD, SL and WX are vaild.
PD= http://www.atoc.org/rsp/_downloads/Routeing_Guide/maps/map%20graphics/Map%20PD.jpg
SL= http://www.atoc.org/rsp/_downloads/Routeing_Guide/maps/map%20graphics/Map%20SL.jpg
WX= http://www.atoc.org/rsp/_downloads/Routeing_Guide/maps/map%20graphics/Map%20WX.jpg

DailyClicker

Thank you very much for all your replies and support throughout this!

I'm still extremely confused on what I'm allowed to be doing and what I am not.

It's because the London Underground system conflicts with the Train polices in things such as Child Tickets and in my opinion should be simplified, to make it easier especially for younger people.

What exactly is a Zero Excess sorry? Is it something they issue me?

DailyClicker

Thanks for that info ticketcollector.

So from what I have seen:

1) The journey I took was valid route?
2) To get a Child Ticket I cannot be 16 unlike the Tube?

So I was travelling on a Child Ticket, due to my misunderstanding, so therefore I was wrong in this case.

How about buying a Zonal 1-6 Child ticket from a Tube Station for £2-00.

Is that valid?

yorkie2

I agree with ticketcollector that Surbiton SHOULD be valid, but I am not convinced that it is valid. I will do a bit more research into this though.

As for the Oyster thing, Dailyclicker - can you tell us what exactly are the conditions of it which you were issued with when you were given it?

ticketcollector - I think there is no doubt that if Dailyclicker goes to a LU station and asks for a Travelcard they will accept his Child Oyster as giving him the right to a child travelcard. Are you saying this is then not valid on NR? Or is it a case of NR do not recognise Child Oysters for issuing purposes but do accept them, in the same way that LU do not recognise railcards for issuing purposes but accept railcard discounted travelcards?

ticketcollector

yorkie2 wrote: »

I agree with ticketcollector that Surbiton SHOULD be valid, but I am not convinced that it is valid. I will do a bit more research into this though.

As for the Oyster thing, Dailyclicker - can you tell us what exactly are the conditions of it which you were issued with when you were given it?

ticketcollector - I think there is no doubt that if Dailyclicker goes to a LU station and asks for a Travelcard they will accept his Child Oyster as giving him the right to a child travelcard. Are you saying this is then not valid on NR? Or is it a case of NR do not recognise Child Oysters for issuing purposes but do accept them, in the same way that LU do not recognise railcards for issuing purposes but accept railcard discounted travelcards?

NR does not recognise Child Rate Oyster if the person is 16.
The old, hard and fast rule of it is that if the person is 15 or under then its child rate. If they are 16 or over then it is adult regardless of the child rate oyster. The only exception to the rule is if you have a New Deal railcard which entitles you to Half Price Adult fares (or child rate when the booking office is closed)

DailyClicker

Thanks

So this means I can buy a :

Child Travelcard Zones 1-6

from a London Underground station, because I have a Child Oyster card which is valid even though I'm 16.

So that ticket they issue is valid on the LU but not NR?

That is a really bad system then if thats the case =(

yorkie2

I'm still not sure about this. Where is it documented?

Don't forget 16 year olds on family railcard discounted tickets!

DailyClicker

I have also tried looking on the websites(national rail and tfl) but cannot see any hard facts on what the rules are.

My Oyster Card entitles to me Child Rates when I buy tickets from the LU, and Free Bus Travel.

It's valid until the start of the school year once your 16, so mine is valid until this September.