Excited! But what will happen tomorrow?

jimc_2

Almo wrote: »

couch your advice in nicer terms. No one is going to listen to someone telling them how stupid they are, so if you want people to listen to you, why not post the same message in a more constructive way?

Absolutely spot on Almo!

What really p*sses me off about many (not all) HPCers is not their possible veracity but the way in which they violently express their OPINIONS. I don't necessarily disagree with them but neither do I agree at this stage when no-one can possibly know how all this is going to pan out.

The first response to OP was a disgrace and suitable basis for a ban. No attempt to answer the OP's question and merely abuse that anyone should question their own position.

OP makes a valid argument for their own personal reasons for going for it now. All the best to them! At least they are showing some positive committment and THAT is what is affecting the general economy.

The current situation is FAR more complex than simply house prices. To simply say "houses will only cost half their present price in a few years" (Which some prominent HPCers are proud to have been saying for four years! Duh!) misses many other factors such as bank stability because of lack of confidence, job losses (ditto) enforced bank unwillingness to lend for MANY years, possible rampant predicted commodity and food inflation and many other factors could mean that FTBers and RTBers could be in exactly the same situation if not worse, in 5-10 years time.

Previously 'secure' jobs are crumbling; financiers in tears, even big computer companies like Fujitsu losing contracts. Nobody is immune and talk of 'saving for a huge deposit' may be optimistic if the economy slumps.

(Before you rant - notice all of the 'conditionals' - could, may etc. I'm not being so arrogant as to PREDICT all of this - only saying that no-one can!)

OP's opinion and decision is valid for them and maybe they are buying a declining asset (in the short term) but then - has no-one ever bought a car?

Now there's a stupid purchase by the base logic of HPC! It'll never again be worth what you paid for it!

Enjoy the asset while you can. That's what OP plans to do.

carolt

jimc wrote: »

OP's opinion and decision is valid for them and maybe they are buying a declining asset (in the short term) but then - has no-one ever bought a car?

Absolutely, if the OP chose to post on 'housebuyers chit chat' or some such forum; but if you post on a site called 'Money Saving Expert', don't be surprised if you get people commenting on it being a bad time to buy, a poor investment, and liable to lose them money.

That's not to say they shouldn't buy; if they go into it with eyes open and are happy with the trade off they have made: potentially lose money but gain something not measurable in financial terms eg their dream house etc etc. But on a site like this one it would just seem plain wrong not to point out the financial risks; not only for their sakes, but for the sakes of any other people reading this (public) forum, who might not be as aware that there are alternatives to buying, and inherent risks.

jimc_2

Totally agree with you Carol. Point well made and without abuse.

OP now has some of the information they asked for (although very little of the procedural stuff yet. Perhaps we can all help them with this over time.)

My beef is with the ranters and insulters who infest parts of this board and it offends me that genuine posters could be put off using MSE because of a fear of the abuse hurled at them with very little provocation (or reason.)

jimc_2

Snooze wrote: »

:they deserve to be called stupid because that's exactly what they are.

OMG! It starts again straight away!

Snooze - You MAY have a point but your circumstances are not those of the OP. Why call them stupid?

What's point 1 of the Forum etiquette again? Oh yes. Now I remember.

"Pls be nice to all MoneySavers. There's no such thing as a stupid question, and even if you disagree courtesy helps."

Calling stupid is NOT courtesy!

Admittedly OP is acting in a way that not many Financial Advisors would advise right now - And no Financial Advisor has EVER given bad advice, have they?

There are many aspects of a decision and you (and I) do not know enough about OP's to call them stupid.

kunekune

carolt wrote: »

I rent privately, have kids - so do lots of other people. Why can't you? You can pick your area and you don't get dreadful neighbours.

And best of all, the most you can ever lose is the cost of your deposit....

Plus you save the (not insubstantial) difference between the cost of monthly mortgage payments and your rent; contrary to what seabiscuit claims, rent is far cheaper in nearly all areas.

...

The major disadvantage of renting privately, especially so if you have kids, is that you rarely have more than 6 months security at any one time. At certain times in their school career (eg, when about to apply for secondary school and zones matter) that is really a big problem.

I'd also disagree about picking your area and not having terrible neighbours. On an AST, you can't move for the length of the tenancy (unless you lose rather more than the deposit). That's quite a while with terrible neighbours. Perhaps where carolt lives there is a fantastic supply of family-sized, unfurnished houses with some outdoor space ... around here, there are only 1 or 2 such houses available at any given time within a reasonable commute to the children's schools. We have friends who had no choice but to take a complete dump when their AST was not renewed and there was nothing else around. That could happen to any tenant.

And finally, so long as you can afford it, the important comparison isn't between rent and mortgage, it's between rent and the interest portion of the mortgage. Both are the famed 'dead money', in the short term. The differential varies between different regions, but we are looking at a mortgage of around £160K and the interest on that (admittedly with a staff rate) will not be much more than the rent we currently pay.

I think the posters who understand we have different lives and different things to worry about have it right. The perspective of a single person is often going to be different from that of a family, for instance. Age, ours and that of our offspring, matters too.

andys15

Snooze wrote: »

:T Exactly.

Instead of telling them they're being stupid and saving them a fortune maybe you'd prefer I told them they're doing the right thing and then watched them post again in 2 years time whinging about the bad advice they were given and how they're about to be repo'd ??

Sorry but I've no sympathy for them and they deserve all they get. You only have to look at the top page of either this forum or the house price sub-forum (or even turn your TV on) to see that now is a really bad time to buy. If people choose to ignore this advice then they deserve to be called stupid because that's exactly what they are.

Rob

Rob

Oh wise one, please tell me your story. How long have you been waiting to get your foot on the ladder. How many years have you called people stupid for not buying a house. Are you currently renting, and if so how long have you been renting for. Are you in a position to pounce when the house slump. Do you think you will get a good mortgage when houses slump. Will you have a job when they slump.
The way I see, as soon as you can get on the ladder, get on it. Get a decent fixed mortgage, which you can afford for the duration and then see what happens when that deal runs out. If we listened to one sided advice all our lives, we may as well stay with our mothers.

How can you call someone stupid for wanting to buy a house, that they can call there home. They can decorate it as they like, have accidents without the worry, not be at the whim of a landlord, who may after 6 months/1 year increase the rent, which means you have to go through the hassle of moving again and the costs that will incur, or give in to the landlords demands. Not have to put up with monthly/bi monthly inspections. Get annoyed everytime you see your neighbours doing a bit of DIY knowing that you cant do it. Your neighbours knowing that your renters, and the stigma you may get from that. Not being able to make any real plans for the future, because you dont know where you will be in a years time(landlord may sell). At least with a fixed deal, and properly managed you know you are sorted for the next x years.
I dont care if the house I am just about to buy goes down in value over the next few years. If needs be, I will have to stay put until I am not in negative equity. All I hope is that when I sell it, it is roughly the same value as it is now, but because of comments like yours Rob, I hope the prices go through the roof, and you are left behind once again.

puddy

yes, this is a money saving website, but one of the main tenets of this idea is that you save money on things that you want and can afford, you dont go without. the OP wants her own home, I dont blame her, I have never rented and wouldnt want to, its not for me. The points made about children's security is well made and very valid. therefore, IF,,, and its a big IF, the OP 'loses' money over a 10 year house owning period (something I personally think is unlikely but then what do I know), she has created value in her life in a different way. I cant believe the venom with which people speak about other people's choices.

Snooze

jimc wrote: »

"Pls be nice to all MoneySavers. There's no such thing as a stupid question, and even if you disagree courtesy helps."

Calling stupid is NOT courtesy!

And neither is it "courtesy" to repeatedly spam the forums asking the same questions over and over again when if you'd done a quick search you'd already have found your answers and not needed to ask in the first place. :rolleyes: But people conveniently forget about that one don't they? :rolleyes:

And anyway, you're argument holds no water. You say "Pls be nice to all MoneySavers". The OP isn't any kind of moneysaver if they're buying a house at the top of the crash. :rolleyes: Argument null and void.

Rob

Snooze

andys15 wrote: »

Rob

Oh wise one, please tell me your story. How long have you been waiting to get your foot on the ladder. How many years have you called people stupid for not buying a house. Are you currently renting, and if so how long have you been renting for. Are you in a position to pounce when the house slump. Do you think you will get a good mortgage when houses slump. Will you have a job when they slump.

My answers to all of the above are:

1. It's got !!!! all to do with you
2. Mind your own business

The way I see, as soon as you can get on the ladder, get on it.

It's clear you're not very bright then.

Get a decent fixed mortgage

:rotfl: . In fact that comment deserves a couple more really :rotfl::rotfl::rotfl:

which you can afford for the duration and then see what happens when that deal runs out.

Your interest rate jumps 2% and the bank wants £15k off you to maintain mortgage LTV.

If we listened to one sided advice all our lives, we may as well stay with our mothers.

Judging by your advice thus far, that sounds like exactly what should be doing.

How can you call someone stupid for wanting to buy a house, that they can call there home.

Wanting to and actually doing so are 2 very different things. No problem with anyone wanting to buy their own place and nor do I have a problem with anyone actually buying their own place if it's at the right time or they have no choice but to move.

but because of comments like yours Rob, I hope the prices go through the roof, and you are left behind once again.

Umm, left behind where exactly? You mean left behind in the house I own outright with no mortgage to pay?

:rolleyes:

Rob

andys15

Snooze wrote: »

My answers to all of the above are:

1. It's got !!!! all to do with you
2. Mind your own business



It's clear you're not very bright then.



:rotfl: . In fact that comment deserves a couple more really :rotfl::rotfl::rotfl:



Your interest rate jumps 2% and the bank wants £15k off you to maintain mortgage LTV.



Judging by your advice thus far, that sounds like exactly what should be doing.



Wanting to and actually doing so are 2 very different things. No problem with anyone wanting to buy their own place and nor do I have a problem with anyone actually buying their own place if it's at the right time or they have no choice but to move.



Umm, left behind where exactly? You mean left behind in the house I own outright with no mortgage to pay?

:rolleyes:

Rob

I am not getting into an argument with you. You should stop calling people stupid for doing something that has been long thought out. I cannot understand why you are so upset about people buying now.
What do you suggest, we all rent out houses, that will cause such a demand that we will be overpriced in that market too. Should we live in a caravan and wait until the day when it is safe to buy. Live with our parents, who happen to live 300 miles from where I work. The house we are buying, is the house we are currently renting, they wanted an extra £250 pcm to continue renting, and they had a tennant lined up if we weren't interested(not a phantom tennant, a real one and there would have been 20 more in the q). They weren't being cheeky, but there mortgage had gone up, and we hadn't had a rent increase for 2 years. Can you not realise that some people need to get on the market right now, not in 3 months or 3 years but now. Don't you think we have reasoned in our own mind and with our loved ones, and even in places like here to make sure we have made the right choice. The last thing we need is being called idiots and the only advice is to not buy. Great advice but like I said what is the alternative.