Toothache but no dentisit....

Joe_Bloggs

@Teerah it is good to here your point of view but sad to hear of your frustration with the system.
Do you have any links to the Ozone treatment ? Are there names to the agents that contribute to tooth decay. If bacteriological, have the critters been studied, genomes/antibiotics etc. ? Rather than fill with a mercury/silver amalgam why not fill the tooth with a matrix that could promote the tooth to re-grow.
These are only my thoughts and in no way criticisms of the current nineteenth century dental methods employed.
J_B.

BFG_2

jaxxy00 wrote:

By the way how often are you supposed to have a check up as someone mentioned something about 6 months but when we had our checkups, as everything was ok they booked another checkup appointment for 1 years time?

There is no evidence to show what the optimum length between check-ups is. The gov is trying to make it so that people don't go to the dentist until they are in pain; they are doing this by intoducing a so-called NICE recall interval (NICE = National Institute of Clinical Excellence - (hah, the irony of the name passes the gov by)).

Of course, if you're in pain it's quite often too late to save the tooth (but the gov doesn't care). The gov want the problem where 'I haven't been to the dentist for 7 years and now I've got toothache and can't get a dentist and I'm going on the TV to tell how terrible the NHS is' to go away; this they can only accomplish by either providing more funds (ROTFPML) or neglecting the 'people who care about their teeth and attend a dentist on a regular basis'.

Next yr in essence the gov will force dentists to provide only treatment which is ESSENTIAL to your health - they don't care that some treatment might improve your health a bit, it's basically if you can SURVIVE (eat?)without anything being done, that's it.

This may all sound a bit melodramatic, but you will be relying on your dentist to do the RIGHT thing (ie help you) rather than what the gov wants ie to do the CHEAPEST thing.

The dental situation in the UK is going to get much, much, much, much, much worse (IMO, oh and BTW IIRC the opinion of the National Audit Office and the House of Commons Select Committee and the Consumders Association and Age Concern and 25,000 dentists)

Good luck everyone, we're going to need it!

Toothsmith

Teerah wrote:

I too have bills and mortgage to pay and it p***es me off when people automatically assume that just because you are a dentist you must be rolling in it and just because you work in the NHS your work is crap and your care even worse.

Rant over

I think I might be guilty of that from time to time too Teeah - sorry

I stress the point though that you cannot be 'well off' on the NHS AND provide good treatment!

I bet you really love dealing with all the nervous ones on the NHS !

In a moment of high stress when I was still on the NHS, I once worked out that the time it took for a certain rather doddery old lady patient to come in with her zimmer frame, take off her coat (God knows why she couldn't do that in the waiting room - I had the heating on - even on the NHS!) say "hello", take off her glasses, and put them in the case, then put them in her handbag, take out her top denture and wrap it in a tissue (which she had to get out of her handbag, despite me saying I had plenty) sit down, get comfy and be ready to go cost me in time about twice as much as I was getting paid for the check up!!! And it took her just as long to go!!!!

She's still alive and well, and with me as a private patient now! As she has so few teeth, I don't charge her full whack for an examination and a clean up. I probably just about break even now, but only because the receptionist helps her with her coat in the waiting room!

daffynspacegirl

With the state that nhs dentists are in I always keep a bottle of clove oil handy. Instant pain relief for teeth, it can mess up the nerves in the tooth (so I've been told) but, as a recognised form of torture the toothache has to go for me... so either clove oil or a pair of pliers

Toothsmith

Joe_Bloggs wrote:

@Teerah it is good to here your point of view but sad to hear of your frustration with the system.
Do you have any links to the Ozone treatment ? Are there names to the agents that contribute to tooth decay. If bacteriological, have the critters been studied, genomes/antibiotics etc. ? Rather than fill with a mercury/silver amalgam why not fill the tooth with a matrix that could promote the tooth to re-grow.
These are only my thoughts and in no way criticisms of the current nineteenth century dental methods employed.
J_B.

Hi Joe,

All this stuff is being worked on. If you put 'photo activated disinfection' into a search engine as well, you'll see a quite exciting way of disinfecting a lot of the infected mush inside a roting tooth. If that tooth is then sealed, it can naturally remineralise. i have not put any links here, as the stuff is pitched at all sorts of levels, and I don't know which would be most appropriate for you.

The limiting factor at the moment is ways of sealing the tooth. The 'perfect' filling/sealing material is yet to be invented.

Ozone came with some pretty remarkable claims, but it hasn't really lived up to them. One of the dentists who really promoted it has now left dentistry altogether, and has gone to South Africa to organise corporate hospitality events!!!

Don't be too hasty to dismiss amalgam as a filling material though. It has stood the test of time for over 100 years. It is no more toxic than any other filling material. (I am always careful never to touch 'white filling' with my fingers - even with gloves on as it has caused quite severe contact dermatitis in many dentists.)

Very much the way forward in dentistry though is to make holes as small as possible now, and take away as little tooth as possible. Here, white fillings are the best thing to restore with, as they can be made to stick to the tooth, and don't need the cavity to be shaped specially to fit them. The photo activated disinfection process will help here too.

Needless to say, NHS fees will not support any of this!

Joe_Bloggs

@Toothsmith
Can you provide links to where this research is being undertaken and funded by the UK government or not funded by the UK government? Who is spending money in the area of dental research ? I will search on my own given the search key you provided.
I'm glad that your fingers are OK but what of the recipients tongue ? Click your teeth together and breathe in the Hg vapour. It is no suprise that a dentist has yet to invent a 'paint on' cure for dental decay. This would be professional suicide and an end the drill and fill culture.

What would you say if an opthamologist said they needed to pull your eyeball out as you had an eye infection ?
Dentistry has been the complacent profession, doing nothing for 100 years to advance itself, preying on the population, that has to resort to pain killers or the toolbox for the relief from pain, given the current situation.
J_B. (Nothing personal, the whole system has decayed into a mess.)

IvanOpinion

On the decay front (I hope I am explaining this correctly), I know one of my dentist friends has recently invested in some ozine producing equipment. Its no good if you already have fillings in the tooth but apparently if you go twice a year they can 'bathe' a good tooth in ozone which kills anything that may be causing the tooth damage and the tooth can actually repair itself if necessary. Wish they had it when I was a kid. He seems to be having quite a bit of success with it (albeit that it is not cheap - treatment is about £200 per year).


Some other tips I have been told by dentists..
1. If you break a tooth and the sharp edge is annoying you then chew some sugar free gum and push it up onto/into the broken tooth - removes the sharp edge
2. if you have toothache, and you can take them (as usual always check with your doctor/dentist) then use Ibuprofen. Apparently as an anti-inflammatory it can work a lot better than other pain killers (I can vouch for this having suffered a rough night taking loads of paracetamol then first thing the next morning my friend telling me to take ibuprofen ... the pain had totally gone within 20 minutes).

Ivan

BFG_2

I'm not saying the profile below is like anyone who is posting here, but I believe it reflects a large section of our society

Haircut - £35 to £65 - coz I'm worth it (expected duration of usefulness - 3 to 8 weeks)
Trainers - £35 - £150 - coz I'm worth it (expected duration of usefulness - 3 to 12 months)
Sky TV - £50 - coz I'm worth it (expected duration of usefulness - 30 days)
Beer - £3 per pint - coz I'm worth it (expected duration of usefulness - 1 hour)

Teeth - NHS cheapest possible, lowest quality, bare minimum (say £30 per annum) - coz they're only teeth (expected duration - rest of your life (but must likely not coz no preventative care!))


As is generally the case - YOU GET WHAT YOU PAY FOR

(unless you get a misprice at Tesco or Dell!!).

Toothsmith

Joe_Bloggs wrote:

@Toothsmith
Can you provide links to where this research is being undertaken and funded by the UK government or not funded by the UK government? Who is spending money in the area of dental research ? I will search on my own given the search key you provided.

No. People tend not to publish links to their research in any subject. It is normally closely guarded until it comes up with a patented product.

Government funds some research within the university system. Dental materials/equipment manufacturers fund the majority of research wordwide.

Joe_Bloggs wrote:

I'm glad that your fingers are OK but what of the recipients tongue ? Click your teeth together and breathe in the Hg vapour. It is no suprise that a dentist has yet to invent a 'paint on' cure for dental decay. This would be professional suicide and an end the drill and fill culture.

I'm not sure what to make of you Joe :rolleyes: Some things you say make it seem like you have good insight into some dental problems, other bits are complete rubbish inspired by a bit too much Daily Mail reading

The recipients tongue is Exactly the point! And yet people come to me wanting these 'lovely' white fillings instead of that poisonous mercury amalgam. In truth, neither has actually been shown to do any harm to anybody, but both do have toxic ingredients. "Click your teeth together and breath in the mercury vapour" Rubbish! a little bit is released when they are drilled out, but elemental mercury passes through the body. Unlike organic mercury compounds (wich are found in fish and exhaust fumes) which get taken up by the body.

A "paint on cure for decay" would not be "professional suicide" at all. To start with, more teeth are lost to gum disease than decay. That needs regular visits to stay on top of.

Tell me, if a front tooth in a young girl decayed, and a 'paint on' product cured it, what do you think would happen next? Would something magical rebuild the tissue that had been lost to the decay process? Would the young lady be happy with a little dint in her tooth, or the edge missing? At present, if you do stop decay, the decayed bit goes very dark as it remineralises, it doesn't turn pearly white again. Do you think the patient will be happy with that? There will still be a restorative process that will need to take place afterwards.

Plus, there will always be people who have accidents with their teeth and break bits.

A paint on cure will not end my job overnight, and I would love to have one.

This 'end the drill and fill culture' is also very 'Daily Mail'

The only place a 'drill and fill' culture still exists is in busy NHS practices, because that is what they need to do to get paid. Good private practices left all that behind years ago, as we can charge our patients for the time spent talking to them about how to stop the disease processes happening. Preventative dentistry, and minimal intervention dentistry does not mean 'not going to the dentist' though. If anything, it needs more visits (Which is why the new NHS contract with longer recall intervals will do nothing to stop 'drill and fill despite what Tony B Liar says). The only way to stop decay is by catching it very early. The only way to do minimal intervention dentistry is by fixing a hole when it is very small.

Joe_Bloggs wrote:

What would you say if an opthamologist said they needed to pull your eyeball out as you had an eye infection ?
Dentistry has been the complacent profession, doing nothing for 100 years to advance itself, preying on the population, that has to resort to pain killers or the toolbox for the relief from pain, given the current situation.
J_B. (Nothing personal, the whole system has decayed into a mess.)

Again, there are sensible points in this paragraph mixed with complete billhooks

You are right that dentistry is the only surgical proceedure that treats bacterial infection with amputation. It is a far from satisfactory situation.

The teeth are unique in that although they can arrest a bacterial invasion, given very specific and carefully supervised conditions, the tissue lost will not regenerate. Dentists therefore have to use the materials they have at present to fabricate the longest lasting restoration that they can. The properties of the materials are such that they cannot simply replace the lost tooth (yet - it's coming!) and often, the actual hole in the surface of the tooth is very small, and the tissue lost underneath that hole is much larger. There is no material (yet!) that can be reliably squirted through the little hole, and fill the void. Therefore a drill needs to be taken to the tooth to widen the hole a little. For a small cavity, discovered early, and combined with something like PAD, this really is all the drilling that needs to be done though. Hardly the same as having an eyeball pulled out :cool: And really not at all like dentistry was 100 years ago. If I went into all the advances over the last 100 years, it would be a bit like Monty Python's "What have the Romans done for us" So I won't bother.

Joe_Bloggs

Thanks Toothsmith for your insight .This is the 'vent' board and I blew of some steam. If it did sound like the Daily Mail then it goes to prove what a crappy paper it is. I feel sorry for the NHS dentists who are left. Those dentists who go exclusively private just saturates the workload for those that remain. This forces the wealthy of the millions denied treatment to go private, the rest go without . If farmers get paid not to grow crops why can't dentists be rewarded for healthy teeth in their patients as well as the fillings they have to do. The NHS dentistry system sucks and nobody is doing anything likely to fix it.
If you fill a minor defect in a tooth you eliminate any chance of it repairing itself. It could get worse or better. With the advent of minature web cameras and the internet why can't you send a movie of the teeth/gums in the mouth to the dentist ?

Are there published journals containing scientific papers around the topic of dentistry and likely advances/research ?
J_B. (Orthodontics is like pulling teeth only it takes three years and feels like ten)