Toothache but no dentisit....

Toothsmith

bethscott1970 wrote:

I'd settle for being able to find a local dentist who will make my husband a set of false teeth without expecting us to get a second morgage to pay for it. He has a severe dental phobia and recently had the last of his top teeth removed at the maxio-facial dept at the hospital. It took a lot of persuation and sedation to get him to stay so my challenge to find a patient dentist (who will give him the support he needs to even get in the chair) is an impossible one. I know it's illegal for someone to make dentures without having a dentist fit them but whats my alternative?

Denturists (Technicians who make false teeth direct to the public) are illegal in this country, but still they do exist.

Have you found one? Have you seen their prices?

They are as dear as my private prices generally!

I don't know if you know or not, but a dentist will be paid around £130 for a full set of dentures on the NHS.

That's not £130 in his pocket, but £130 total.

To make a decent set of false teeth on a patient with no phobia would take at least 5 appointments of about 15 - 20 mins each.

It would incur a fee from the techician of at least £50 - and that would be if a trainee technician did them. I pay my technician £200 for the sets he produces.

So, an hour and a half of surgery time would get the practice £80 to cover it's overheads.

Do you see now why you can't find a dentist to do them on the NHS?

What you would need would be a lottery winning dentist who now just ran a practice for fun.

There are very good dentists out there. I'm sure with time and care a good set of teeth for your husband can be made.

I doubt a denturist would want to take on the job with the difficulties you describe. And as I said, it wouldn't really be cheaper than a private dentist anyway.

My advice would be to get a recommendation for a good dentist. Go for an initial consultation, and find out how much a good set would cost. There are good deals on interest free credit cards at the moment, or a low rate bank loan, and get the job done.

IvanOpinion

Toothsmith
I have a couple of very good friends who are National health dentists but they also take on several private patients (on particular days of the week). It seems to work very well for both of them - the never charge me anyway I also have a friend who does nothing but NHS work and he is far from being poor - despite having to pay a mortgage on his surgery, a dental nurse, a receptionist and a cleaner out of that.

Obviously England has got some serious issues therefore to alleviate this would it not be better for dentists to do one or two days day NHS work and the remaining time on private patients. Even for a few years after qualifying? If not then I think we might see the market being flooded with migrant dentists who are chomping at the bit to get in over here. As usual the government will allow too many in and therefore our own homebred dentists will find it harder and harder to get private work because everybody will be back to NHS.

I don't understand why dentists calim that the NHS is not lucrative - obviously private is much more lucrative but a very high standard of living can be achieved frm the NHS.

Ivan

Toothsmith

IvanOpinion wrote:

Toothsmith
I have a couple of very good friends who are National health dentists but they also take on several private patients (on particular days of the week). It seems to work very well for both of them - the never charge me anyway I also have a friend who does nothing but NHS work and he is far from being poor - despite having to pay a mortgage on his surgery, a dental nurse, a receptionist and a cleaner out of that.

I do not want to comment much on this as they are friends of yours, but I cannot work to the standards I have been trained to within the fees available on the NHS.

The new contract in April will effectively stop dentists mixing NHS and private in this way. They will have to decide which side of the fence they want to be on.

IvanOpinion wrote:

I think we might see the market being flooded with migrant dentists who are chomping at the bit to get in over here. As usual the government will allow too many in and therefore our own homebred dentists will find it harder and harder to get private work because everybody will be back to NHS.

The second quote of my signature refers to the Governments promise to import dentists. They promised 1000 by Oct 1st, despite spending millions on recruitment & training to get them fit for the UK, only 450ish are in post so far. Several have come over and gone home again, because of what they are expected to do on the NHS! The gov dazzel them with promises of earning up to £40 000,which is a lot in the countries they're from, but when they get here they find they can't, and the cost of living is so much higher here, that they had a better standard of living back home!

The Gov. used it to try and scare dentists back to the NHS, but it has backfired on them, and cost you, the taxpayer, a packet in the process.

IvanOpinion wrote:

I don't understand why dentists calim that the NHS is not lucrative - obviously private is much more lucrative but a very high standard of living can be achieved frm the NHS.
Ivan

A very high standard of living can be obtained through renting out poor housing to people on benefits. Doesn't mean I'd want to do it.

I sleep better at night knowing that I do a good job. I only charge people what it costs to do that job.

november

bethscott1970 wrote:

I'd settle for being able to find a local dentist who will make my husband a set of false teeth without expecting us to get a second morgage to pay for it. He has a severe dental phobia .....so my challenge to find a patient dentist (who will give him the support he needs to even get in the chair) is an impossible one.

I found a dentist who not only dealt with but is getting me through my dental phobia. Yes I paid for my treatment (and still am) but in all honesty I wouldn't have paid that much less on the NHS. I know as I've checked out the prices with my friends who have NHS dentists. Plus I know I am paying for the extra time my dentist gives me, the extra care etc which I need in order to get me there and get me to go back. I know the difference - I really didn't feel a thing despite having root canal work. I've never experienced that before as normally it seems to me its one injection and carry on with the work (NHS)

No I can't really afford it if you are looking at it on a 'can I pay this outright' basis but I have had loans for cars and this is my teeth - I can do without them even less than I can do without my car and they are costing me less than the car

I'm not knocking NHS dentists and I'm certainly not getting involved in the debate on how much they earn as I don't know enough about it on a personal basis. I do know that on a cost only basis I feel that the extra I paid on top of what it would have cost me via the NHS was for actual goods and services I have received (e.g. extra time and extra pain killing ). In other words I don't consider it more expensive at all.

Savvy_Sue

blue_monkey wrote:

Make sure you keep up your 6 month checks though else you get thrown off the list.

6 monthly? No, not any more. My NHS dentist said we (me and 3 kids) didn't need to come for 9 months, and Toothsmith will confirm this is the way the NHS is going. Checkups can be spread further apart, because the dentist doesn't get paid for children to have them, especially if no treatment is needed, and adults don't pay much for a checkup.

I'm thinking of finding a private dentist because TBH I think the 'laissez-faire' service I have had from NHS dentists over the years is not in the best interests of my teeth!

Toothsmith

Savvy_Sue wrote:

6 monthly? No, not any more. My NHS dentist said we (me and 3 kids) didn't need to come for 9 months, and Toothsmith will confirm this is the way the NHS is going.

This is the 'Access dividend' .

By following 'new ways of working' dentists will 'free up capacity' and therefore be able to see more patients.

It's the Governments way of getting extra patients seen for no extra money.

Basically, the dentists that are so entrenched in the NHS that they feel they can't escape will have to see even more patients than before. That is why all who can are now jumping ship.

Those that just see children on the NHS will either have to see all ages now, or give up NHS altogether.

So expect to be paying privately for your kids too in about 6 months time.

IvanOpinion

Toothsmith wrote:

I do not want to comment much on this as they are friends of yours, but I cannot work to the standards I have been trained to within the fees available on the NHS.

All I can say is that they do not appear to have the same problems .. I can't believe that there is that much difference between England and here? They do keep talking about 'heres what you get on the NHS, but for £20 more I can do such and such for you'.

The new contract in April will effectively stop dentists mixing NHS and private in this way. They will have to decide which side of the fence they want to be on.

surely that will only make matters worse .. although that may be what the government is trying to do (get everybody out of the NHS and paying privately ... I wonder if GPs are next for this treatment?).

The second quote of my signature refers to the Governments promise to import dentists. They promised 1000 by Oct 1st, despite spending millions on recruitment & training to get them fit for the UK, only 450ish are in post so far. Several have come over and gone home again, because of what they are expected to do on the NHS! The gov dazzel them with promises of earning up to £40 000,which is a lot in the countries they're from, but when they get here they find they can't, and the cost of living is so much higher here, that they had a better standard of living back home!

Both my friends are on signifiantly more than £40K - from things said I believe both are on low 6 figure sums - however, as I mentioned, they both do a certain amount of private work. Maybe £40K is for first year qualified?

Just read your signature. I think Jan-Oct is too short a period of time to expect to recruit 1000 people in any trade. I think the next few years though may be a bit more interesting if they do continue to recruit.

The Gov. used it to try and scare dentists back to the NHS, but it has backfired on them, and cost you, the taxpayer, a packet in the process.

nothing new there then

Ivan

Bossyboots

I too pay privately for my dental treatment even though in my area there is no problem getting registered with an NHS dentist. This was originally because I needed emergency treatment and that is one thing you can only get privately round here. The dental clinic, the dentist and the dental nurse were all made aware of how scared I was and they have been brilliant. I am happy to pay the extra for the time they have invested in getting me through my phobia and maintaining my ability to walk through the door and into the chair. Nothing is ever rushed so if I feel a bit wobbly time is taken to reassure me before anything else is done. This dentist, unlike my last one, took the time to listen to what it was that frightened me and we are working through it. That is well worth the extra cost to me. I also trust her because I had not been to a dentist for a number of years and she could simply have told me I needed this treatment and that and I would have believed her. However, I actually only needed an extraction (the cause of the emergency) and a filling (which was obvious even to me). Subsequently she has replaced one of my old fillings she said she was not happy with but at my last check up a few weeks ago she said everything was fine.

Toothsmith

IvanOpinion wrote:

surely that will only make matters worse .. although that may be what the government is trying to do (get everybody out of the NHS and paying privately ... I wonder if GPs are next for this treatment?).

Ivan

Exactly, and yes, doctors will be next.

kevinbev

If you are not registered with a dentist and need emergency treatment then try the NHS dental walk in centres. Should be able to find on the NHS web site http://www.nhs.uk/England/Dentists/Default.aspx. The goverment in a few years will realise that oral cancers have rocketed and as such will decide it will be better and cheaper to prevent than cure, so will start to invest more in dentistry. One other thing though is if the NHS provide all the training for dentists then when they qualify they should be obliged to provide NHS treatment for at least 10 years before they go fully private.