Living abroad tips and hints for money savers

donny-gal

Am million questions come to mind, but be assured if they do not pay a loan against a house, then they will be evicted and the house sold by the bank and all creditors paid before they see a penny. The bank will not care what it gets for the house provided they and all other creditors are covered, and yes, they have buried their heads in the sand.

Even if they are taking their solicitor to court, there are a million and one other solicitors they could have gone too, but they all want paying!!

I think they have probably run away from the situation not knowing what else to do, but someone, and it may be you needs to talk to the Bank in Spain and find out what their stance is. Do you know who their bank in Spain is and where abouts they were?

Good Luck.

MrsTinks

Savvy_Sue wrote: »

Sadly I fear your outlaws will not be eligible for any help with council housing. I doubt if they would be classed as vulnerable (trust me, you have to be in absolutely dire straits to be seen as vulnerable!), and they are not homeless (because you have taken them in).

Even if you give them notice, they still won't be vulnerable.

They should start looking for private rented housing. The council MAY be able to help with a bond / key deposit scheme, which might help with the deposit / first month's rent, but I wouldn't hold your breath for that either.

It is faintly possible that they might have more luck renting something in the sheltered housing field from a housing association, that's because there is a reasonable turnover in that sort of accommodation, and because the restrictions mean that those who are eligible move up the lists faster IYSWIM.

I know if they go to sign on they will have to pass a 'habitual residence test', and the length of time they've spent in Spain would affect whether they were eligible for ESA etc. I don't know if similar questions are asked for council housing too. They can at least claim a 'local connection' to the area, because you are there.

None of this sounds like good news for you, I fear.

I guess we'll just have to cross our fingers tomorrow and hope... I have found a 1 bed flat for them at £500, cheapest there is, and between them in pensions they get a total of £700 a month... I'm not seeing much wriggle room for living...

MrsTinks

donny-gal wrote: »

Am million questions come to mind, but be assured if they do not pay a loan against a house, then they will be evicted and the house sold by the bank and all creditors paid before they see a penny. The bank will not care what it gets for the house provided they and all other creditors are covered, and yes, they have buried their heads in the sand.

Even if they are taking their solicitor to court, there are a million and one other solicitors they could have gone too, but they all want paying!!

I think they have probably run away from the situation not knowing what else to do, but someone, and it may be you needs to talk to the Bank in Spain and find out what their stance is. Do you know who their bank in Spain is and where abouts they were?

Good Luck.

I believe it is Santander... (and if the Spanish side is as caring as the UK one they are in for the long haul!) and it is somewhere in Spain - they have lived there 5 years

However all the help we can give them about the Spanish situation will help them on their feet sooner rather than later hopefully... *sigh* and giving us back our peace in our home...

ETA - I know that yes the bank will repossess and they won't get near what the house is worth minus debts etc...

droopsnout

On top of all that, to expect to live abroad with an income of just £700 monthly was unreasonable, in my view. (Unless they had savings to supplement this, which doesn't seem likely, given the turn of events). Apart from just being too little money in the first place, when one's income is in sterling, and sterling nosedives against the euro, which it did in August 2007, that income is much reduced in euro terms.

In this instance, the upside is that the sale of their house will produce rather more euros for them because of the weakness of the pound.

By the way, and way off topic, I do love how the UK media still go on about the eurozone being weak economically, and how the pound is wonderful. Why, then, is the pound still worth only 1.16€ today, whereas when we bought our house a few years ago it was at 1.62€? The UK media have lost all credibility with me! But there you are: the in-laws' income of £700 was worth 1008€ in April 2006, and only 812€ now, and prices have shot up in the intervening years, to make it all much worse.

Not sure how they could have promised to pay back 450 euros under the circumstances. Sounds like they have no idea where money is concerned.

I can certainly understand your anger, MrsTine. The in-laws have acted recklessly and without any sense of responsibility at all. And it seems to have begun with a failure to do much research before they bought the Spanish property.

Sue, I was very interested in your outline of entitlement to housing. This aspect is quite close to my own heart at the moment (not for ourselves). What happens, then, to someone who returns to the UK penniless and with no-one willing to accommodate them? Do they live in shop doorways? Serious question. Very serious!

MrsTinks

droop I think you're right and it's possibly a point which will be more and more relevant as ex-pats living off a UK pension will get less and less for it... As they start to struggle more will end up back here with nothing, barely the clothes on their backs. My inlaws are lucky we stepped in... but what about those who do NOT have that luxury?
They are as we speak at the council offices trying to find out what they can and get as much help as possible...
You know I think I'd be more understanding if they were a few sandwiches short of a picnic - but they're not! They're actually intelligent and well educated... just... infuriatingly stubborn and unwilling to take responcibility! It's not even being pre-lightbulb moment, it's total denial! ARGH! And breeeeaaaaathe!!!! Will let you know what they come back with from the council

Savvy_Sue

droopsnout wrote: »

Sue, I was very interested in your outline of entitlement to housing. This aspect is quite close to my own heart at the moment (not for ourselves). What happens, then, to someone who returns to the UK penniless and with no-one willing to accommodate them? Do they live in shop doorways? Serious question. Very serious!

Well, I could be wrong. My knowledge of the local authority's duty to house is based on working for a HA over 10 years ago, and now doing admin for a charity where many of our clients are not securely housed.

AFAIK - and you could check this on any local authority website - the LA only HAS to house those for whom it has a responsibility, who are also vulnerable.

Now, you and I might think that a young person thrown out of home with nowhere else to turn who'd never lived away from home before would be 'vulnerable'. I suspect you'd be wrong. You might think that such a person would be at risk of being pimped, offered drugs, and falling into very unsavoury company, but that does not make them vulnerable. Once they have been pimped, gained a drug habit and fallen into very unsavoury company, they still may not be vulnerable in the eyes of the LA.

Mrs T's outlaws, moreover, if they'd been repossessed in the UK, might be seen to have made themselves intentionally homeless - certainly there are several definitions of 'intentionally homeless' which remind one of Alice in Wonderland.

Some very surprising people do indeed end up sleeping rough. There are a few charities who may be able to help: DH's charity helped a very respectable lady a few years back, she ended up at Emmaus, (do you mind googling it, I'm on the pesky laptop on a train!) where many of the companions have less respectable backgrounds. She was very happy there: she wanted to work, they were glad of someone with good housekeeping skills.

But not all stories have such a happy ending.

If Mrs T's outlaws do not come from the LA's area, and can show no history of making regular visits, then the LA may just say "not our problem, mate." And they may be quite lawfully entitled to do so.

Would be interested to see if I'm right ...

BTW, I don't think being old makes you vulnerable either. Being old and ill might. But you might still need the local connection ...

seven-day-weekend

See my advice on Habitual Residence Test here:

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/34303425#Comment_34303425

AFAIK the council have no duty of care to house them; they may even be deemed to have made themselves intentionally homeless by not paying their mortgage.

As to what can be done in Spain...all I can suggest is that they get a good lawyer. AFAIK the bank CAN take the house off them to pay their loan off. I have never borrowed any money in Spain, nor do I have a Spanish Credit Card, so have no personal experience of this thank goodness..

droopsnout

Sue, s-d-w, thank you both very much for this very helpful information.

I'm sure you're not wrong, Sue. Sorry if my phrasing made it seem as if I was doubting what you were saying in the previous post. It certainly wasn't meant to! My question about what happens to impecunious returning expats was wholly genuine and asked because I really did want to know. I guess many people (like me) tend to regard the UK as somewhere there is always a safety net for people who, for whatever reason, find themselves homeless. Evidently, this is not the case.

I have heard of Emmaüs. It is one of the biggest charities over here, found by Abb! Pierre. There is a branch in most towns. We go there sometimes to have a look round for interesting bric-à-brac - but have never bought a thing! Shame on us!

I find the LA imposed philosophy of clearing up a mess when it is too late (rather than before it gets out of control) to be among the daftest things in officialdom. I have met it many times before, in different guises - mainly in schools. Most of us know that a stitch in time ...

I think that s-d-w's advice on the Habitual Residence Test could find an additional permanent home on this thread, too.

Once again, thanks for the info. It has already been passed on.

hartcjhart

Mrs T, the bank as said can take the house as the debt is secured against it,however I think that your ILs have buried their head in the sand as normally 3 payments need to be missed before they even consider re-poing, there would have been letters sent for each missed payment,and at least 2 letters before the bank going to court to get posession.
now
what time scale are we talking,when did they lose the house exactly,
where in Spain is the house located?

are they in a position to pay the arrears owed in the next few days?

I ask because all may not be lost,and I have a VERY good solicitor in Spain that can help BUT she will of course need paying

pineapple

Mrs T
How terrible for all of you.
At their age they should be eligible for a flat in a sheltered housing complex. Have a look at what is available in the area. There are some nice housing association schemes around. I'm an ex warden of a very nice scheme with large flats - in fact one of my tenants arrived after the break up of her marriage in Spain.
If they don't like the idea, they can just treat it as a leg up.