Ebay "Item not as Described' / Paypal dispute

Time2Go_25

Sadly, it does look very likely that the fact that a replacement was offered has gone against you, although you are always entitled to a refund for faulty goods if done in a resonable time.

raven999

pdel61 wrote: »

Sadly, it does look very likely that the fact that a replacement was offered has gone against you, although you are always entitled to a refund for faulty goods if done in a resonable time.

Unfortunately I can't verify the functionality of the remote without the charging cradle, The battery is completely dead. The remote does partially power on when connect via USB, but non of the remote functions appear to work in this mode. This mode is designed to configure it using the PC software, but I think you need to register the software first before you can do this. I wasn't able to register it, as it was already registered. Plus the USB doesn't actually charge the battery, which is unfortunate, as I'm basically left with a non working item :mad:

EXPAT_2

There is no way we here can prove the OP is telling the truth.

I have had in the last 7 days 8 such emails from buyers, when previously EVERYBODY was always delighted. The complaints are almost unbelievably far fetched.

It's quite simply due to the new feedback system.

ALL BUYERS CAN TAKE THE P*SS !

I'm going to sack Ebay forthwith & sod the whinging buyers, i'm sick of being held to ransom over feedback. Up yours ebay!

Premier_2

Under the Sale of Goods Act, when an item does not conform to contract, the consumer can decide for themselves whether they wish to to opt for a full refund or elect to accept a repair or replacement. (except where a repair or replacement is not possible or cost effective)

http://www.berr.gov.uk/consumers/fact-sheets/page38311.html

However, I don't think any lawsuit would be decided on whether the buyer was right to insist on a refund or the seller right to simply offer a replacement.

The crux of this disagreement is simply, did the item conform to contract? On the one hand we have the buyer who claims it did not, and on the other hand we have the seller who claims it did.
To clarify, it is not about whether the item as the buyer claims it was received conforms to contract, but whether the item was received in that condition. The buyer claims it was, the seller claims it was not. Ultimately a judge would have to rule on the evidence put before him/her (in a similar, but less official way, that paypal has had to decide)

I agree now that I have seen the full details that the OP should consider very carefully before exposing himself to potentially several hundred pounds in costs by taking legal action.

I would suspect any legal action against the seller would be strongly defended by them. Whilst the outcome of the matter can only ultimately be decided in court, I do think the OP has a weak case unless the "2 independent witnesses" really exist. Without knowing the facts here, I would suspect they are not as independant as the OP believes. Unfortunately friends/girlfriends/relatives would probably not be accepted as independant and I somehow suspect 2 strangers were not in the girlfriends flat when the OP received and opened his post there.

Without those witnesses, I don't know if the OP would win this case, but as I say, only a court hearing could ultimately answer that for certain.

raven999

EXPAT wrote: »

There is no way we here can prove the OP is telling the truth.

I have had in the last 7 days 8 such emails from buyers, when previously EVERYBODY was always delighted. The complaints are almost unbelievably far fetched.

It's quite simply due to the new feedback system.

ALL BUYERS CAN TAKE THE P*SS !

I'm going to sack Ebay forthwith & sod the whinging buyers, i'm sick of being held to ransom over feedback. Up yours ebay!

I'm only reporting the facts, I copied / pasted quotes from both the paypal dispute , ebay messages and feedback, the only modification I done was to remove usernames from it. I would also like to point out that it was the seller that left defamatory feedback while we were still in the paypal dispute process, so I wasn't holding anyone to ransom over their feedback.

I will agree with you on one thing though, after this experience I'll be sacking ebay and paypal.

jasmineswhiskers

raven999 wrote: »

I then tried to register the remote at the logitech web site and it said that it was already registered to user: [EMAIL="mgbeattieco@btinternet.com"]"mgbeattieco@btinternet.com"[/EMAIL].

Could you email the address it was registered to and see if they might be able to shed some light on it?

raven999

Premier wrote: »

Under the Sale of Goods Act, when an item does not conform to contract, the consumer can decide for themselves whether they wish to to opt for a full refund or elect to accept a repair or replacement. (except where a repair or replacement is not possible or cost effective)

http://www.berr.gov.uk/consumers/fact-sheets/page38311.html

However, I don't think any lawsuit would be decided on whether the buyer was right to insist on a refund or the seller right to simply offer a replacement.

The crux of this disagreement is simply, did the item conform to contract? On the one hand we have the buyer who claims it did not, and on the other hand we have the seller who claims it did.
To clarify, it is not about whether the item as the buyer claims it was received conforms to contract, but whether the item was received in that condition. The buyer claims it was, the seller claims it was not. Ultimately a judge would have to rule on the evidence put before him/her (in a similar, but less official way, that paypal has had to decide)

I agree now that I have seen the full details that the OP should consider very carefully before exposing himself to potentially several hundred pounds in costs by taking legal action.

I would suspect any legal action against the seller would be strongly defended by them. Whilst the outcome of the matter can only ultimately be decided in court, I do think the OP has a weak case unless the "2 independent witnesses" really exist. Without knowing the facts here, I would suspect they are not as independant as the OP believes. Unfortunately friends/girlfriends/relatives would probably not be accepted as independant and I somehow suspect 2 strangers were not in the girlfriends flat when the OP received and opened his post there.

Without those witnesses, I don't know if the OP would win this case, but as I say, only a court hearing could ultimately answer that for certain.

Thanks for being the third party (independent) view point on this, sometimes you get so close to something you only see it from your own side. It is frustrating when you know you have done nothing wrong, you've told the complete truth and basically all you want to do is get your money back and forget that it ever happened.

I'm not up on how the law classifies independent witnesses, it was my girlfriend and her mum and I can see why this might cause a problem.

Anyone know how expensive would it be to persue this through the small claims court?

raven999

jasmineswhiskers wrote: »

Could you email the address it was registered to and see if they might be able to shed some light on it?

Already tried that one, fairly early on, I explained that I had just bought it from ebay and found that it was already registered to the email address. I asked them if they had sold it on second hand or returned it to a store. I also asked if they could confirm when they registered it.

I didn't get any response from them. It was only later through Logitech that I found out that it was registered in June 2006, but Logitech wouldn't provide any further details as they need to protect their customer data. I did ask paypal to contact Logitech directly as part of their investigation, hopefully sheding more light on it, but I don't know if this happened.

Premier_2

raven999 wrote: »

...Anyone know how expensive would it be to persue this through the small claims court?

It really depends on how involved it becomes.

Initial filing fee £25.00 Online (or £30.00 at local county court)
Hearing fee £25.00

If you win, you will nearly always get this automatically added to the judgement.

However, if you lose the defendant will ask for his reasonable expenses to be taken into consideration.

Travelling costs to attend the court hearing
Overnight costs (if necessary)
Loss of earnings (up to a maximum of £50 per day)

(Note if you did win, you could claim similar expenses, but as the matter would be heard at your local court, this would only realistically be for any loss of earnings)

Expect this as an absolute minimum. Additional costs may be incurred.

Be aware that even if you win, you may incur extra costs enforcing that judgement - but those would be usually be automatically recoverable too assuming the seller has the means to pay.

raven999

I just received a follow up email from paypal, it looks like the main reason for it them going against me is to do with the police incident document.

"In this particularly case it was determined that this claim did not qualify for a refund and the Protection Services department requested police documentation be provided to confirm the information you provided in the claim. I can not actually provide you with more detail information but if you require more information regarding this case please contact '[EMAIL="complaint-response@paypal.com"]complaint-response@paypal.com[/EMAIL]' directly and refer to Case ID PP-XXX-XXX-XXX.

I fully realise, Mr XXXX XXXXX, that this is not the outcome you would have wished for and I know it may not meet with your approval but I do hope you will understand that this decision was made in accordance with our company policy. While I cannot change this I will make sure you objection is duly recorded."

I don't understand this. I went to the police station taken the remote in it's received state, plus all the documentation, including the request from paypal for a police report. The police officer said that because goods has been received, even if parts were missing, it was a civil dispute with the seller. However, they would create an incident report, he provided me with a hard copy of the incident number on police paper and it included the officer's name. He said that he would be happy to speak to paypal to clarify any details we had discussed.

I sent an email to paypal telling them that I would fax a hard copy on Monday morning and if they needed to clarify any details they should call my local police station. Paypal confirmed they received the fax, so I don't understand why there is a problem with it? I guess another email to paypal asking them to expand on their problem with the police document. When I spoke to them Friday they would only say that the it was invalid, don't really know how they can say it's invalid and she couldn't expand on this, as it's another department that processes the police documents and I couldn't speak to that department.