Ebay "Item not as Described' / Paypal dispute

raven999

It saddens me to see that a seller can be abusive and make false accusations and then because they offer a replacement paypal sides with them. If you were buying any goods from a shop and were treated like that you wouldn't want to shop there again.

The seller also left me defamatory feedback was left by the seller almost immediately after I filed the paypal dispute

"BEWARE THIS MEMBER IS A FRAUD & A CON STAY AWAY FROM THIS MEMBER BE WARNED"

My reply
"3 key parts missing and I'm meant to be the fraudster? disgusted with seller"

Their follow up
"1) YOUR HONESTY 2) YOUR INTEGRITY 3) YOUR PRIDE 3 KEY PARTS MISSING FROM YOU"

I proceeded to leave them negative feedback
"Beware of this seller,3 parts missing & then accuses you of trying to scam THEM!"

Their follow up
REVENGE FEEDBACK DISGUSTED WITH THIS BUYER NO HONESTY AT ALL NO INTEGRITY AT ALL

Anyway I contacted Ebay after I seen the defamatory comments and they said that they try to be independent when it comes to feedback. They asked to resolve the comments through mutually agreeing to withdrawn them or "Complete a Statutory Declaration" and send it to ebay. A link to the document is here:
http://pages.ebay.co.uk/help/community/png-defam.htmlReading it, the sellers statements are defamatory and I was in the process of completing the form, but I now think why bother. Does it really matter what comments were said, when I plan to leave Ebay after this fiasco.

Premier_2

I too am surprised that you failed to convince paypal in this matter based on what you have said. (and assuming there was nothing to the contrary in the "Several messages were sent back and forth between myself and the seller")

As already suggested, why not just initiate your own legal claim against the seller?

Do it online if you like: http://www.moneyclaim.gov.uk

Based on what you said, I am sure you would win such case. If not the judge would certainly explain in much more detail why you had failed to persuade him/her.

Two things may go against you.
1) You lost the paypal claim (but the other evidence should far outweigh this)
2) You used the item. As soon as you realised the item was incomplete/not as described, you should not have used the item. The seller has the right to expect to receive back the item in the same condition as it was sent. Unfortunately you opted to use it - that was a mistake.

Btw, what are the police doing about it? It appears they have a unresolved potential crime on their books at present - it maybe worth following up progress with them.

raven999

too am surprised that you failed to convince paypal in this matter based on what you have said. (and assuming there was nothing to the contrary in the "Several messages were sent back and forth between myself and the seller")

-if it isn't too boring, then I'll certainly paste the messages in here, it should be a cut and paste from payal.

As already suggested, why not just initiate your own legal claim against the seller?

Do it online if you like: http://www.moneyclaim.gov.uk

-I think I'll do this if the credit card route fails.

Btw, what are the police doing about it? It appears they have a unresolved potential crime on their books at present - it maybe worth following up progress with them.

-When I went to the police station, I took the box and all the ebay/paypal messages with me and the request from paypal to make a report. Now the police told me that they couldn't actual do what paypal had requested. Paypal wanted a police report, which would be headed on police paper faxed to paypal detailing the issue with the remote. The police said that since the good had been delivered, even though parts were missing then it was a civil dispute with the seller. The officer took down my details and created an incident report number, provided this on police paper with the officers name, this was then faxed to payal. The officer said he would be happy to speak to paypal and clarify any details that they needed. This is where my knowledge of the law fails me, I would have thought that if someone had misrepresented what they were selling then it would be a crime.

Premier_2

raven999 wrote: »

It saddens me to see that a seller can be abusive and make false accusations and then because they offer a replacement paypal sides with them....

Oh, you missed that important point out from your initial post, didn't you?

I understand how you feel regarding buying anything from the seller, and indeed your right to a refund, but try to see things from an independent third party viewpoint.

You purchased the item, so presumably you want it. You claim it is incomplete, the software is used and the guarantee already registered some time ago.

The seller claims it was perfect and you are "trying it on".

How can an independent person fairly judge based on one person's word against another who is right. Your failure to accept the replacement could have raised doubts as to your sincerity.

Why did you not accept the offer of a replacement item? You could still have left the dispute open until is was received and you were happy with it?
There was no obligation for you to buy anything else from the seller in the future.

raven999 wrote:

...Reading it, the sellers statements are defamatory and I was in the process of completing the form, but I now think why bother. Does it really matter what comments were said, when I plan to leave Ebay after this fiasco.

Not really.

In fact, if you were successful in getting them removed, you'd possibly be doing the seller a favour. Where feedback is concerned, I look at all feedback both given & received and can equally be put off by how something is said as opposed to what the content is.

raven999

Paypal disupte messages, these were all the messages sent before the item got escalated into a claim. I then followed up with payal as to why I didn't want a replacement, the information from Logitech stating that it's already registered and the police incident details.


From PayPal: PayPal on 12/04/2008 07:34 PDT
Buyer escalated this dispute to a Claim.

From Seller: on 12/04/2008 07:34 PDT
THE BUYER PURCHASED MY ITEM WHICH WAS BRAND NEW IN THE BOX THE BUYER EMAILED TO SAY ITEMS WERE MISSING WHICH I STRONGLY DISAGREE WITH AS THE ITEM WAS BRAND NEW IN A SEALED BOX SO AFTER MUCH DISCUSSION I TOLD THE BUYER TO SEND IT BACK AND I WOULD SEND OUT A REPLACEMENT WHICH IS THE TERMS OF MY AUCTION TO WHICH THEY DECLINED AND SEND THEY DONT WANT A REPLACEMENT THEY WANT A REFUND WHICH LEADS ME TO BELIEVE THEY PURCHASED THE ITEM DELIBERATELY TO TAKE THE PARTS OUT THEY NEEDED FOR A REMOTE THEY ALREADY HAVE AS WHY WOULD NT THEY WANT A REPLACEMENT I KNOW 100% THAT THE ITWEM I SENT WAS NEW AND SEALED AS ARE ALL MY ITEMS AND I HOPE PAYPAL SEE SENCE AND REALISE THIS IS A SCAM AND A FRAUDULENT DISPUTE

From Seller: on 12/04/2008 07:30 PDT
NOW THAT STINKS EVEN MORE NOW YOU DONT WANT A REMOTE WELL THE TERMS OF MY AUCTION STATE IF THE ITEM IS FAULTY A REPLACEMENT WILL BE SENT OUT SO YOUR GETTING ANOTHER REMOTE THER FACT YOU SAY YOU DONT WANT A REPLACEMENT LEADS ME TO BELIEVE MY SUSPICIONS ARE CORRECT YOU BOUGHT MY ITEM DELIBERATELY TO TAKE THE BITS OUT YOU NEED FOR A REMOTE YOU ALREADY HAVE AND NOW YOU INTEND TO SEND IT BACK WITH THE PARTS MISSING AND GET A REFUND! WHY WOULD NT YOU WANT A REPLACEMENT ? DOES NT MAKE SENSE LETS LET PAYPAL SORT THIS OUT AS I THINK YOU HAVE TAKEN THE BITS OUT AS MY ITEM LIKE ALL MY ITEMS ARE BRAND NEW AND MISSING PARTS HAS NEVER BEEN AN ISSUE

From Buyer: on 12/04/2008 05:28 PDT
I don't want a replacement remote, I would like a full refund.

From Seller: on 12/04/2008 05:13 PDT
OK YOU SEND IT BACK I WILL SEND A REPLACEMENT

From Buyer: on 12/04/2008 04:09 PDT
I'm not accusing anyone of dishonesty, but the parts simple can't disappear by themselves. There was no sign of externally tampering of the package, so they didn't go missing in the post.I still don't understand, If this was a brand new item that had never been opened, then why was the seal at the bottom of the box broken? why is there several key components missing? and how come the remote is already registered to another user? It just doesn't add up and how do you explain it?I would also like to go on the record to say that if you still think this is some sort of fraudulent SCAM, which would make this a criminal offence. Then I've no issue with getting the police involved, I've done nothing wrong and have nothing to hide.As I said in my previous communication. I'm happy to send the item back as I received it in exchange for a full refund, £85.02 and I will pay the cost of the return postage and packaging.

From Seller: on 12/04/2008 03:38 PDT
BUT I AM EQUALLY OFFENDED AS YOUR ACCUSING ME OF DISHONESTY ALSO THE ITEM WAS BRAND NEW I HAVE SOLD ABOUT 40 OF THESE REMOTES AND NEVER HAD A SINGLE PROBLEM WITH ANY OF THEM

From Buyer: on 11/04/2008 14:23 PDT
The item was delivered to my girlfriends house, as I'm normally at work during the day and would not have been in to receive it. It just so happens that I was off work and was able to go through to pick it up.I'm offended by the comment that you think I'm trying to pull some sort of "SCAM". I'm an honest person and your accusing me of committing fraud, which I think is disgraceful.I'm trying my best to resolve this situation. I sent you an email as soon as I could that detailed the missing parts. I don't know what else I can do.I'm more than happy to send the remote back for a full refund in order to resolve this issue. The package would include everything that was sent to me.

From Seller: on 11/04/2008 13:57 PDT
AND I HAVE A WORKFORCE OF 8 MEN AND 3 WOMEN THAT CAN VOUCH FOR ME THAT THE ITEM WAS NEW AND IN A SEALED BOX BUT THAT MEANS NOTHING I KNOW FOR A FACT THE ITEM WAS NEW AND UNUSED AND ALL THERE AND IT SEEMS VERY FUNNY YOU HAVE TWO PEOPLE WITH YOU WHEN YOU OPENED THE BOX I CAN SMELL A SCAM WHEN I SEE ONE AND THIS IS ONE IF YOU SEND THE ITEM BACK WITH ALL THE PARTS IT WAS SENT WITH I WILL REFUND YOU

From Buyer: on 11/04/2008 13:54 PDT
I would like to add that I have 2 independent witnesses that were present when the item was opened and can verify that the parts were missing from the box.

From Seller: on 11/04/2008 13:47 PDT
THIS ITEM WAS ABSOLUTELY 100% NEW NOTHING MISSING AT ALL AND I DISPUTE THIS CLAIM 100 % AS I MYSELF CHECKED THE ITEM BEFORE IT WAS SENT AS I DO ALL OUR DISPATCHES IT WAS IN A BRAND NEW SEALED BOX

From Buyer: on 11/04/2008 13:43 PDT
I'm raising this dispute as the item is missing several key components and is not brand new as described in the ebay listing.I received the item today, Friday 11th April 2008.The item looked well packaged externally and there were no signs of damage. I then removed the outer packaging and noticed that the logitech box showed signs of being previously opened. I thought this was a little strange as the item description detailed this as a new unopened item. I proceeded to open the logitech box and immediately noticed that it was missing the following key components:1) USB cable.2) AC adapter.3) Recharging station.These items are clearly listed as being included in the ebay listing and are essential for the operation of the remote control, as without these items it cannot be charged and is therefore useless.I also observed that the plastic bag, which holds the CD software had already been opened and that the sticker that I would expect to be on the LCD screen was actually stuck to plastic container.I then contacted the seller informing of these issues, via ebay. After that, I found one of my own usb cables, installed the logitech software onto my pc and then connected the remote to the pc. I then tried to register the remote at the logitech web site and it said that it was already registered to user: [EMAIL="mgbeattieco@btinternet.com"]"mgbeattieco@btinternet.com"[/EMAIL]. A brand new remote would not have already had a registered user against it and again contradicts the information on the ebay listing that stated "hi its brand new never been opened never been registered".I then sent a follow up email to the seller, via ebay, that the item was used and was not brand new.I got a very negative response from the seller with them implying that I was lying about the missing parts. Therefore i've been left with no other option but to open this dispute.

Miseryschild

I'm afraid I don't have any advice for you but I do have to ask:

Is the seller's CAPS key broken or something? There is no reason to TYPE LIKE THIS all the time, it's pointless and just makes my eyes bleed.

~MC

soolin

I still can't see what going to law will achieve here as the seller has complied with the requirements and offered a replacement.

As Premier says on the facts as stated it is very diffiiclt for any third party to see who is telling the truth, but the fact that seller offered a replacement does rather assist them in their claim that they have made all reasonable attempts to resolve the matter..

tintinlostsnowy

16 negatives and 30 mutuals withdrawns
he does seem dodgy what are they for item not as described?
has he done the same to others if so you could go the court route as said before in the thread and try to contact some of the others and all put in a claim together
if it was brand new from pc world why did he open it? or why not take it back sounds like he didn't have a receipt and may have been stolen or refurbished.
stick his id on here so we know who to avoid

raven999

soolin wrote: »

I still can't see what going to law will achieve here as the seller has complied with the requirements and offered a replacement.

As Premier says on the facts as stated it is very diffiiclt for any third party to see who is telling the truth, but the fact that seller offered a replacement does rather assist them in their claim that they have made all reasonable attempts to resolve the matter..

I guess i was naive in thinking how the buyer protection system actually works. I only had 2 people that witnessed me open the box when it was delivered and they could verify the part were missing. I also had a third party (logitech) confirm that the remote was already registered in June 2006. I also asked Logitech to confirm that my address and delivery address had never had a remote registered to them. Plus the fact that I went to the police station and made a statement. After all this, I didn't think there was any doubt the paypal claim would not go in my favor. How wrong was I

raven999

Miseryschild wrote: »

I'm afraid I don't have any advice for you but I do have to ask:

Is the seller's CAPS key broken or something? There is no reason to TYPE LIKE THIS all the time, it's pointless and just makes my eyes bleed.

~MC

All I can say is that it looks like their caps key broke at some point on the 11th April. From their initial ebay response, the caps key was clearly off.....

[FONT=arial,sans-serif]"it was brand new from pc world so pi** off and try your pi** taking with someone else mate just cos you have a broken one and you think you can stitch us with it your mad ok i personally checked it and it was all there now do one[/FONT]"

Maybe it was Karma paying the seller back, although I don't think a caps key cost £85!!!!