Dogs Fighting

GoodMoodFood

Hi, i do not know if this is the correct place. But i am having a problem with my dogs. They are both rather big breeds. The first we have had for a year and a half. We then got the second one about 6 months ago. The first was neutered a year ago. The second was neutered in January.
I noticed on the second day of the second dog being neutered, they began to fight. Its very scary, they did it once on the second day and then again the next day.
Neither are badly hurt apart from the second one having a small puncher hole.
It seemed to happen when they were excited, jumping up to greet us, the other would then attack. Another time was when the second dog had been neutered, she was 'confused' so to speak and tried humping the other dog, when the dog being humped turned and attacked. They are both female and we have both never had any trouble before.

I was wondering how to stop this incase there is another attack in the future? I pulled them apart on two occasions, the first i was caught on the hand and the second i was caught on the leg. Both broke the skin (I didnt see a doctor because both have had blood tests that are clear for anything nasty) It just hurt and was brused for a while.

Can anyone help?
Maybe water would work?
Maybe a loud noise?
Anything?

pboae

What breeds are they? How old they?

First, any puncture wound needs to be seen by a doctor or a vet, as they often become infected by the bacteria that live naturally in dogs' mouths. That applies when humans or dogs get bitten.

Second, fighting b!tches is extremely serious, and can escalate to the extent that one ends up seriously injured or dead. There is an old saying that dogs fight to breed and b!tches fight to breathe, and sadly it is frequently too. Whilst two b!tches can live well together, more often than not there will be problems, especially if they are within a couple of years age of each other, similar breeds and strength, and of similar characters.

It's interesting the neutering has set this off, but that might be a coincidence. It was a bit quick for it to be a response to hormonal changes, but it could be that one b!tch was taking the opportunity while the other b!tch was weakened by the operation.

Loud noise is not likely to help, and could easily make things worse (i.e. you could get bitten or they could fight harder in response to it). A water pistol or similar is unlikely to help either, though a bucket of water or hose turned on them will seperate most (but not all) dogs. It's only a temporary fix though.

From your description these fights are already fairly serious (i.e. puncture wounds) rather than being all hot air. You need professional help, and you need it quickly. Find a good behaviourist or trainer to help you ASAP.

Be prepared that the advice you will hear first is to rehome one of them, (especially if they are bull breeds or mastiffs) and sadly that is sometimes the only answer, if they cannot be trained to live together. Depending on the set-up of your house it is also sometimes possible to keep both dogs, but always keep them seperate with baby gates etc. That's a tough way to live though.

Sometimes b!tches can learn to live together though, if you are willing to put the time in with training. So don't give up on them yet! I just want you to understand that this is a common and potentially extremely serious problem.

In the meantime, DO NOT leave them alone unattended, you don't ever want to come back to find they've fought with no-one there to stop it. There are some sights no dog owner would ever want to see, and that is one of them.

GoodMoodFood

Thanks for your reply,
their both X breeds. One is almost 2 years old and the other is almost 1.
There not any type of bull breed or anything, one looks like a lab (the 2yr old) and the other more of a german shepard.
Their both very friendly, and we havent had any trouble before. We will search for professional advise. They dont get left alone and at the moment we're just keeping an eye on them and keeping them seperate when we can.

I dont think i could re-home one, but if i had to id have to rehome the newest member (1yr old). Their both very good with other dogs and usually very good with each other.

mrs_pepperpot_3

When my staffie tried this i popped a soft muzzel on him, now when ever he gets alittle excited towards my princess ( collie) i just say muzzel and he stops straight away, if i go out i makesure they are well walked and tired before i go , so they just sleep . mine are still puppies btw.

GoodMoodFood

Thanks mrs pepperpot.
I think its the 2 yr old who is taking advantage of the week 1 yr old because of her recent operation.
I seem to remember at the time the neighbours male lab (unneutered) escaped from their garden into ours, all it did was wonder abit but i think it might have marked its terrority in a couple of places. Do you think my females smelt this? and it set them off? Esp with the hormones flying from the operation?

pboae

The dynamics of the relationship between 2 b!tches is very complicated, much more so than between 2 dogs, or a b!tch and a dog.

With 2 b!tches so close together in age, it was fairly likely that this would happen at some point. It could be that the male has started this off, or it could be the op, but TBH the precise trigger doesn't really matter, because if it hadn't been that now, it would have been something else soon enough.

GoodMoodFood

I think we could sort them out. Im thinking of muzzling them both and seeing how they go around each other in day to day life. Or at least until we get proper professional advise.
I found this: http://www.petsathome.com/find/keyword-is-muzzle/product-is-V00084

And i think that would be a good option. Because at least until i can get proper help, they are unable to bite each other or me if they fight.

pboae

Those muzzles are OK for short term (i.e. maybe an hour or so), but you can't use them for long. Although a dog can drink and breathe through them, they can't pant hard and can easily overheat with them on. Also you should never leave a dog unattended in one.

If you need one for longer periods a solid basket muzzle is more appropriate, but again they should never be left alone in them. But a muzzle won't actually stop them fighting, it will just limit the damage they can do, and a determined dog can still do a surprising amount of damage to another dog even when muzzled.

joan_brennan

i hope i don't get shot down for this but i love watching cesaer milan ( the dog whisperer) It is one sky three every evening at 6pm but if you dont have sky you could possibly loan the book from the library. As previous posters have said though you do need to act quickly. According to c.m. bible i think your dogs are just begining to have leadership/ domminance issues. From your posting it reads as though they both get excited but one trys to tell the other how to behave and sort of says "hey dont be rude, thats disrespectful" therfore according to his doctrine you ought to become the leader and control the excited energy. He also goes on a lot about draining the energy by loads of exercise so that your dogs can become calm submissive. sorry its a bit brief but just shooting out to work. good luck:T

pboae

You won't get shot down, unfortunately there are plenty of other people on here who like his approach as well. What Cesar Milan calls calm submissive, other trainers called shut down. His approach is worrying enough when applied by an expert, and can be downright dangerous when applied by an amateur.

Aside from that, once aggression has reached the stage of puncture wounds, its about much more than a telling off for bad manners.

lv1109

I have 3 staffordshire bull terriers, 2 dogs and a !!!!! and the 2 dogs fight. They are father and son.

We have had to adapt our lives to prevent future problems, i.e. we keep them separate when we are out, they eat at opposite ends of the kitchen and only have toys under strict supervision.

Anything can set them off and it is really not pleasant to see, or the results that occur after a fight. I love my dogs as much as I would love my children (if I had any) and therefore rehoming hasn't been an option.

We had a behaviourist round to assess the situation and we are now stricter with the dogs so that they know their boundaries, and also they know they are dogs, not babies (as this is how I used to treat them).

My life is not as easy as I would like it to be but I love my dogs so much that I do what I have to do to keep everything calm at home. I walk them for half hour in the morning and usually about an hour in the evening to wear them out and as I said before they are separate when we are not available. By this I mean when we are out or at bedtime (when although we are there, we are not really if you know what I mean, because we are asleep).

On the whole they have improved a lot but I am watchful of them and ready to act quickly in the event of a fight taking place. One of the best things we did was putting collars on them all (we didn't before) as this makes things a lot easier if they do have a fight to get them apart quicker and with less risk of damage to yourself (as I had got caught by one of their mouths when pulling them apart with no collars).

All the best for you and your girls.

lv xx