phorm/webwise

DatabaseError

OF1975 wrote: »

...I shouldn't have to change ISP just to protect my privacy.

Absolutely right, you shouldn't, perhaps you should take the opportunity to change ISP because BT, Carphone Warehouse and Virgin Media are amongst the worst ISPs anyway, phorm is giving you a 'get out of jail (contract) free' card

Dangle

tonyhague wrote: »

Please quote a reputable source, looks a little unlikely to me as many sites contain adverts, for which they are paid 'per click', charging ISPs to access the sites will force ISPs to consider blocking the sites, thereby reducing their possible ad revenue.

It looks to me that those websites that permit phorm users to visit their site, will have their adverts devalued anyway, as webspies will allow advertisers to target their visitors on other sites. With those webspies partner sites that charge the least per click, getting the most adverts placed.

Imagine for example you run a site publishing digital camera reviews, if an advertiser such as shop wants to target those of your readers who have looked at the latest Digital SLR Cannon camera review, you could charge them a premium, advertisers will have to pay your advertising rate to target your visitors, and competing advertisers will drive that fee up.

But, webspies systems will profile visitors to your site as they read your reviews, advertisers will then be able to target the readers of the very same Digital SLR Cannon camera review when they visit one of the partner advertising sites, many of which could be willing to accept a pittance compared to what it would cost to advertise on your digital camera review site.

They will also be able to follow your visitors around the web as they visit other sites, so they could ensure your readers see their advert many more times than they would have if the advert had been placed on your site, making advertising on your site less attractive. And as they no longer need to advertise on your site to reach your readers, there will not be the issue of limited available advertising space anymore, so your advertisers will expect to pay less to advertise on your site. Worse still advertising webspies partner sites will have to compete to carry more adverts, driving the advertising fees down.

At least if a website blocks phorm users, or the ISP blocks the website, some users may revisit using dial-up to avoid phorm.

OF1975

New Survey of ISPReview readers re Phorm. More here:

http://www.freepressreleases.co.uk/Press_Releases/Telecoms_News/UK_ISP_Consumers_Suffering_from_Phorm-aphobia_2008051219174/

Jocatz

OF1975 wrote: »

New Survey of ISPReview readers re Phorm. More here:

http://www.freepressreleases.co.uk/Press_Releases/Telecoms_News/UK_ISP_Consumers_Suffering_from_Phorm-aphobia_2008051219174/

Do you think that Phorm will play a sneaky card trick with the 10000 BT customers who probably will be hearing about Phorm/webwise for the first time.

If they tailor the trial to keep its action fairly superficial, and on the face of it helpful to browsers, won't there be a danger of having 10000 voices saying that the anti-phorm brigade is overreacting.

I consider myself to be a fairly average broadband customer and I certainly didn't realise just how far reaching the nature of Phorms intrusion into my personal information could be. I suspect many of the trialists will be none the wiser after the trial.

OF1975

Hi Jocatz

Thats an issue that really worries me. I think we know enough from the underhand way that BT ran the illegal secret trials of 2006 and 2007 to know that they are unlikely to present this in a balanced way once this trial starts.

I fully expect that when the 10000 people are invited to take part the wording will be something like this:

"Would you like to turn on our new service Webwise which helps to protect you against fraud and phishing while also leading to less annoying adverts"

I doubt there will be any mention of fact that all traffic will be intercepted, that it will be mirrored to phorm servers, scanned and then a profile built. They have already shown a scant disregard for consumers rights by carrying out those secret trials in 2006 and 2007 without consent.

Dangle

I use Quidco to earn cashback from some purchases (around £40 a year), quidco uses affilate links to earn the commission they pay out and I've read about parasitic trojans that infect PCs and modify affiliate links to divert the commission to those responsible for the parasite.

One of my concerns over systems like Phorm's is once they are accepted as the norm, isn't it likely that there will be function creep making them even more objectionable than they already are. For example is it possible that future systems and even future versions of Phorm might interfere with affiliate links?

I can prevent Parasites infecting my PC by use of software such as anti-virus and anti-trojans and root-kit detectors, and by keeping windows fully updated, but once there are parasitic systems sitting within the ISP, they can only be avoided by moving to an uninfected ISP.

OF1975

You raise excellent points in your post Dangle. As bad as Phorm/Webwise is now what is truly worrying is what it COULD be made to do in the future. The issue of function creep as you said.

If this was being done in the name of National Security or to fight Child Pornography then it would be one thing but this is being done out of pure commercial greed just to target adverts at us. That is scandalous. As bad as Phorm is now, what it could do in future is more worrying.

socnsum1

even if you are happy for you to be targetted for advertising, are you as happy about your children being shown adverts for whatever they or you browse for? Lets not give this spyware company any chance to spy on us.

OldBear

socnsum1 wrote: »

<snip>
are you as happy about your children being shown adverts for whatever they or you browse for?

I know I'm not!

I've already written to my MP and MEP about this particular aspect of this. I'm pretty sure the European Parliament are very against targetting adverts at children. (I'll post the source I had for this when I find it again )

BT current Webwise FAQs here: http://www.beta.bt.com/bta/forums/ann.jspa?annID=64 have an answer which basically pushes responsibility onto the account account holder with regards to turning Phorm/Webwise on/off. They say:

23. What are the changes in the terms and conditions?

A new paragraph (paragraph 18) will be added, explaining that Webwise is available as part of BT's Total Broadband service. That paragraph will also capture customer consent for us to take the necessary technical steps to switch the service on or off, as appropriate (and will make it clear to subscribers that they are responsible for making sure that other users of the service in the household are aware of Webwise and know how to switch it on and off).

They are having a laugh! :mad:
My daughter is 7.

I personally don't think that's good enough!

OB

OF1975

In addition to the thorny issue of informed consent re children there is also a wider issue. Libraries all around the country are used by thousands of people every day to access the internet. How on earth can Phorm/Webspies obtain informed consent from the likely 10+ users per computer per day in this situation. What about internet cafes?