Info needed about claiming JOBSEEKERS ALLOWANCE

Fran

dag,

Where have you got the information and figures that you are quoting from?

If the person was still sick after 28 weeks they would then put in a claim for Incapacity Benefit - the "Personal Capability Assessment" is to do with this claim.

lucylou

same thing happened to me .i was working for a big insurance company in the direct debit department and I hated it.it was like a call centre job and all we got was complaints and people shouting on the phones and swearing at me plus I was getting a lot of stress from one of my colleaugues who kept telling to get more calls.I normally took about 80 per day!I was really stressed out plus I never got proper training.Oh yes sorry I did get traing for  about a month and a half where all the other people in the course and trainer talked about sex the whole time cheated on tests and never did any proper training.i complained to my manager before I left and told her everything.She was supposedely shocked and said she would talk to HR about it.I applied for Jobseeker's allowance and I got asked lots of questions as I had left the job voluntarly .Anyway I got my money in the end as I had left my company stating that I got poor training and unfair treatment.company must have confirmed that as i got my money.Good luck

dag_2

Where have you got the information and figures that you are quoting from?

Statutory Sick Pay - in the first 28 weeks, it's based on "Own Occupation Test". Whether or not you are able to do any other job is beside the point - you're entitled to SSP as long as you're not able to do your current job. By contrast, higher-rate and long-term Incapacity Benefit is based on "Personal Capability Assessment", your ability to do any job. Although a self-employed person gets Incapacity Benefit instead of SSP, their benefit is still based on the "Own Occupation Test" for the first 28 weeks.

I believe that many people who suffer from work-related stress take pride in the belief that they're not completely unable to work; they think they would be okay if only they had a different job. Quitting your job and looking for another one might seem to be a good idea - but I believe that it's better to try to resolve the problem, and keep the option of returning to work with your current employer.

I know that sounds harsh - but hear me out.

If you really can't face working for your current employer for the time being, then I respect that. I think it's better to go on the sick. It's very unlikely that your GP will refuse you a sick note. Admittedly, the media says that GP's aren't happy with the current sick-note system, but it hasn't changed yet.

My point is, work-related stress is something I take very seriously. Bullying causes stress; if it didn't, it wouldn't be a problem. I believe you should get sick-pay for it. And you shouldn't go onto JSA and run the risk of sanctions for it.

The fact is: if you quit your job, it will look as though you've left voluntarily - so you run the risk of sanctions. Sure, you could try to get JSA without sanctions, and, chances are, you'll get away with it. But to do that is to avoid the problem. You've got to deal with the problem head-on, with a help of a medical professional.

But more to the point, it's much easier to get SSP for work-related stress than JSA. Less forms to fill in. As long as you take it seriously, chances are your doctor will take it seriously too.

But I don't have statistics about GP sick note refusal. Sorry. I know I haven't answered your question yet ...

Where have you got the information and figures that you are quoting from?

As for the quoted 2.5% risk of JSA sanction - I searched for statistics about JSA sanctions and unemployment. I divided the most recent figure I've been able to find of sanctions for voluntarily leaving work, by the most recent figure of unemployed people, and it comes out to roughly 2.5 percent.

Some people get made redundant. And some people work on fixed-term contracts. I guess that such people are unlikely to face JSA sanctions, thereby making those who leave due to work-related stress even more likely to face sanctions. But I have ignored this, because I have no data on it. I therefore consider 2.5% to be a conservative estimate.

Okay, I know that's not very scientific - but I think it's shockingly high, and I stick by it until someone else can do better.

Another point - other contributors have mentioned the idea of into litigation against employers, for stress and bullying. But how do you think you'll make a lawsuit stick, if you're not even prepared to talk to your doctor about it? If you're really stressed, your doctor will respect it, and you'll get SSP. If you're not really stressed, you have no case against your employer. There are pre-action protocols, to prevent frivolous litigation, which can be found at http://www.dca.gov.uk/civil/procrules_fin/contents/protocols/prot_dis.htm - The protocols intend ...

to encourage employees to voice any concerns or worries about possible work related illness as soon as practicable;

... and if you're able to voice genuine concerns about possible work-related illnesses to your GP, then he's unlikely to refuse you a sick-note.

Sorry if that sounds a bit moralistic and preachy - but I am on your side, really. I probably haven't explained it very well - but I'm just trying to get people to consider going on the sick temporarily as an alternative to quitting the job and going on the dole. I want people to feel that they're entitled to it. I also want people to swot up on the pre-action protocols for disease and illness claims, and realise that they're unlikely to win a legal claim for disease or illness if they can't even get SSP for want of seeing their GP.

Maybe SSP isn't right for everyone - but I think it's seriously worth considering.

dag_2

But more to the point, it's much easier to get SSP for work-related stress than JSA. Less forms to fill in.

Minor point - if you're in rented accommodation and have no savings, then the claim form for housing benefit is a lot simpler if you get income-based jobseeker's allowance than it is if you don't.

However, if you only get contribution-based jobseeker's allowance, it makes no difference - you'd still have to fill in all the same bits you'd need to do if you get Statutory Sick Pay or Incapacity Benefit.

The other thing that makes getting SSP more difficult is that you have to keep seeing the quack on a regular basis - though I don't see that this is worse than going to sign on every fortnight. The GP will probably refer you to a counsellor or cognitive behavioural therapist - but until treatment actually starts, your GP will only sign you off for two weeks at a time - but like I say, I don't see how that's worse than signing on for JSA every fortnight.

At least you're not obliged to look for another job. And if you do start working elsewhere, that's okay too - your employer still has to carry on paying SSP as long as you qualify for the "Own Occupation Test". By contrast, your JSA will be reduced or cancelled if you start working.

heroicnich

Hello

I just wanted to reiterate what was advised above about speaking to the JobCentre ASAP. I discovered today that there is a backlog of approximately 4 weeks at my local DWP office, so it would take 6 weeks from the first point of contact for me to find out the decision made on my case. I am sure this varies across the country but its worth bearing in mind.

Nich

dag_2

Apologies to everyone but I don't think I've been very helpful on this topic so far.

Anyway - I've checked up - and found this - http://www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm200102/cmselect/cmworpen/426/1120502.htm

33. Clients who fail the Personal Capability Assessment (PCA), a test of capacity for work in Incapacity Benefit, must be allowed to sign on even though they may appear to be unfit for work or have decided to appeal. Applying these rules correctly requires a reasonable knowledge of the benefits system if clients are not to be disadvantaged. Bureaux are reporting Jobcentres and ONE offices where staff are ignorant of this rule. Clients have been told to claim Income Support, resulting in a 20% reduction in benefit entitlement, and a loss of national insurance credits.

I'm guessing here - but I assume that "decided to appeal" means an appeal against the decision to disallow Incapacity Benefit. But I don't think that's relevant.

I've also found http://www.ldmeg.org.uk/awt.html - apparently lets you find out if you would pass the personal capability assessment - which used to be called the "all work test".

So I think that if you're suffering from work-related stress, or stress caused by bullying, then the correct procedure is to go on Statutory Sick Pay, and then submit a claim form to continue with Incapacity Benefit after 28 weeks - but fail the Personal Capability Assessment. You will fail the PCA if you score less than six points each for physical and mental capabilities. Then put in a claim for JSA.

You might think it's pointless making a claim for Incapacity Benefit that you know is going to fail - but it's not. Why? Because failure of the Personal Capability Assessment proves that you are capable of work, and therefore entitled to Jobseeker's Allowance - but it also proves that you didn't leave your last job voluntarily, and that you therefore shouldn't have any sanctions imposed on your JSA award.

You needn't worry about your former employer trying to recover Statutory Sick Pay on the grounds that you weren't really ill - because it's possible to satisfy the "Own Occupation Test" without passing the Personal Capability Assessment, and are capable of working elsewhere. Chances are, though, that your employer won't find out.

Indeed, if you work elsewhere during your 28 weeks of Statutory Sick Pay, that's tough cheese on your employer. As long as you provide the Med 3 forms signed by your GP, they have to pay you your SSP, regardless of what you're doing in your time off. (Be warned, however, that if they find out, they may inform your GP, who might refuse your next sick note. Your GP's contact details appear on the sick note itself. Although you can change your doctor, you can only get a sick note from the surgery that you are currently registered with. So I don't recommend working elsewhere whilst off sick unless you're sure that your current doctor will back you.)

When I was off sick, I asked my GP to write out the final sick note with a back-to-work date of exactly 28 weeks after I first went off sick. I had been self-employed, so was getting short-term lower-rate incapacity benefit, and I didn't bother doing the PCA form. I didn't see the point, because I thought it would fail anyway. I went straight on to Jobseeker's Allowance after the sick period ended, and got away with it. My claim for JSA was not referred to a decision maker, because it had been more than six months since I had last worked.

But maybe I took a risk - I don't know. Perhaps it would have been different if I had been employed rather than self-employed, and on SSP rather than IB. That's why I now think it's better to fill in the PCA form anyway.

Make sure you fill in the claim for the Incapacity Benefit you won't get in plenty of time. Ideally you want the claim to be rejected before the SSP runs out - so that you can claim JSA from the first day after SSP, without having to backdate it. It's very difficult to backdate claims for JSA.

We're talking about some very obscure benefit rules here - but I hope this is helping people. Work-related stress is a very common problem, and I think that this plan is the best way to make sure you don't lose out on benefits as a result.

Please check my suggestion with someone from the citizen's advice bureau before actually doing it - I may have got some of my info wrong.

Fran

dag,

I'm not sure who you're replying to here, the original poster from November last year or the poster in September this year who seemed to have a racism problem which has not been mentioned since?

I'm sure your posts will be helpful for someone though.

camper

I would like to point out that if you are signed off work with a doctors sick note, you are not insured to work, either with your usual employer or anyone else.